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The Catholic Church is continuing to deal with allegations that members of its clergy were involved in child abuse cases stretching back nearly 20 years.
Hundreds of allegations of abuse of children by Catholic clergy have come to light in places like Germany, Austria and the Netherlands so far this year.
Ireland has also been badly shaken by widespread reports of child abuse, physical and sexual, by Catholic clergy going back at least seven decades.
In Norway, a former Catholic bishop admitted sexually abusing a minor 20 years ago.
The allegations of abuse have deeply shaken Roman Catholic communities on nearly every continent.
As the Vatican continues to deal with the onslaught of claims, media reports indicated that some senior cardinals believed the entire scandal was a politically motivated one.
Angelo Sodano, the dean of the College of Cardinals, told the Vatican's official newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano that ""the Pope embodies moral truths that aren't accepted, and the shortcomings and errors of priests are being used as weapons against the church."
"It's not a bishop's fault if one of his priests is stained by grave wrongdoing. And certainly the pontiff is not responsible."
We'd like to know what you think.
Do you believe responsibility should not fall with the pope? Are people using the scandal to destabilize the Pope?
Please leave your comments below and be sure to include where you're writing from.
Talking with members of the Catholic Church on the molestation scandal they seem to point out that other religions have the same problem. Therefore, "Two wrongs make it right with these people!"
It's funny how all these scandals have been going on basically from the beginning of time & we act like its new. It's just some in power abusing that power to take advantage of trust & those entrusted with power. Just wish the Church would acknowledge the abuse. I'm sure it's seen what happens to a "regular joe" committing molestation. .. why is it that priests aren't held accountable as breaking the law??? Just a thought
As a Roman Catholic, this scandal has made me very angry and sad. It seriously undermines my Church's ability to fulfill our mission of preaching the Gospel when our leaders act in such a disgustingly contrary way to Jesus's messages. That being said, I will never leave the Church and I will never lose my faith. My Catholic faith is greater than anyone who teaches it, and the Catholic sacraments are greater than anyone who ministers them. These scandals can be prevented in the future by being much more vigilant in preparing men for the priesthood, and by Catholics holding their bishops accountable and demanding a high standard of morality from them.
It is always interesting to me how the media always seems to jump on any news in the Catholic Church; especially any bad news. And yes, other religions have the same problem but the BIG DIFFERENCE is that the media doesn't cover it. Why? Because the abuse is protected because it's part of a very insulated community or it just wouldn't be politically correct to publicize it. You can read into that whatever you wish even though based upon an independent study by the John Jay College had some very interesting facts.That being said, I do not condone abuse of any kind. My faith is in Jesus Christ. Humans are in charge of running the church and they are all not faithful. The Catholic Church is the church that Christ founded and that is what counts with me.
I guess the biggest difference is protestant preachers go to jail, catholic priests go to rome.......
As a non practicing Catholic and former Protestant, I think the victims have been overlooked by the church. Since I am not a cradle catholic, I do not have the limitations of childhood indoctrination to keep me from recommending harsh solutions. These are not crimes to be solved by Canon law but civil crimes to be punished accordingly. The pedophiles deserve jail time and the accomplices as well. There is no reason to protect the Roman Catholic church and cling to its doctrines if it won't or cannot change. Supporting this organization is no different than being an accomplice if its members are not willing to clean house. If the sacraments are administered by church officials who may be pedophiles, how can that be a valid application of that sacrament?
Actually, I am in the process of joining the Catholic Church. I've been a Spirit filled Protestant my whole life, but am finding so much truth and depth in the Catholic Church, and know that God is leading me there. And my wife has been Catholic her entire life and never experienced anything negative at all.
I think American political figures and leaders at all levels have made grave mistakes, but it's still great being an America, and America still offers so much and is still the greatest place on earth to live. I can separate the actions of a very few from the bigger picture and the heart of the organization at large. And I can appreciate the good in my local community, and not write it all off because of something that happens elsewhere. Some can't. Some people, especially those who've never experienced the blessings of living in America, judge the whole because of the very few, only look for the bad, and speak nothing but harmful, destructive, and divisive things.
So it is with people's opinions of Catholicism, it seems.
As a Catholic, I am humiliated and demoralized. I am ashamed of those in my church who have committed crimes against the young and ashamed of those bishops who covered up for them. I'm ashamed of those in the Vatican who failed to bring the child abusers to justice. - I go to Church to pray to God, but the institutional crimes of the Catholic Church make it increasingly difficult to do this. I love my parish, my pastor, my fellow Catholics. But this is a horrific and frightening scandal. And the Catholics who keep denying it are an embarrassment. Defensive Catholics who insist the church is being persecuted are creating scandal.
People are flawed, but the Catholic Church is still Christ's Church. Nothing, not even scandals, will make me lose faith in the Church. We must not forget that there are many holy priests, many holy Catholics. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I was educated in the Midwest of America by nuns, brothers and priests from the age of 6 through 18. I had nothing but a wonderful upbringing and solid education from these dedicated people my parents entrusted my youth to. They instilled the spirit of Christianity in me through their teaching and example. I am grateful to have had this upbringing. I was never touched or abused in any way.
For those who were abused, I am sorry, but I will not allow the current negative publicity shake my faith. Religious folks are only human, Controls need to be put in place so this abuse never happens again . . . just like any other corrupt part of our society.
I am a Catholic and I will remain one together with my family. I intend to die as one too and even more, enter Eternal Life.
There is not the slightest possibility of me being affected by this or any other hysterical response over possible crimes that happened almost 40 years ago and were never investigated by the police.
Sexual abuse is a crime according to most eastern legal systems and must be pursued – and authors must be punished – according to the law. We´re all citizens under the rule of law.
I understand this current approach to a very serious issue like this as an invertion of history: while blaming the institution, we´re treating religion as a state function. We fought for centuries to separate Church from Throne. And people seem to be going backwards in a very unaware and dangerous way. This is quite sad to me, to tell you the truth.
Rule of law is a state function. Wherever. Let public authorities learn about crimes like those in the appropriate time, immediately, charge whoever, immediately – not 40 years later.
I am a practising catholic and will remain faithful. In my human condition, practicisng religion is one of the pillars to my existence. I am thankful for being born at this time, free to choose among an infinite list of options. The first catholics were thrown to the lions in the circus arena. Things used to be far uglier then. The Church is standing for two thosand years, let´s bear this in mind before throwing aimless stones.
I do not know whether these abuses are true or false but it is a fact that some undesirable elements will always try to smear the Catholic Church. It is the church suffering. We are living in a world that is full of thorns and no human has immunity over it. Remember that Satan tempted Jesus Christ and told him to bow down and worship him, that if he does so that he Satan will give Jesus all the kingdom of the world. I think Satan is using different strategy to act today. I suppose we know that Jesus is Jesus he never fails!
Nothing. I echo Dom's comments. It is about individuals and some of the leadership. There are still many good and decent Priests and Bishops. There is nothing wrong with the Catholic faith. The individuals involved in the scandals are members of society as we all are. They are no aliens!
I can not believe Catholics and thier hypocrisy. The claim to have moral standards, ethilically superiors to which their own behavir does not conform. They woud defend the institution first and their cover ups rather than the children. One of those children was myself and the perpetrator is still bishop and Justice does not seem to touch him.
I too feel humiliated and shamed by the behavior of the Church. The Vatican protected it's own, disgraced it's members and sacraficed it's children. These abuses were crimes, their aftermath is the kind of betrayal all human beings feel when they have been tortured or physically abused. The abusers should be tried and convicted just as they would in any democratic society. As for my faith in God, that will never leave me, but my faith in the Church is gone until they can make it right again. I hope so.
My reaction? I feel conned. These are the saintly priests, monsignors, bishops, the Popes that I looked up to all those years? I just can't wrap my brain around what they are : cowardly liars trying to save their own skins, who sexually preyed on children or enabled and protected pedophiles for decades And when finally forced to confront all the evidence, what is their response? Obfuscation. Denial. Lamenting their well- intentioned errors. Claiming number of abusive priests is exaggerated. At worst, the Pope defrocks a few priests. This for committing arguably the worst sin of all – sexually abusing children.
The Church hierarchy asks for forgiveness. Maybe after those involved step down from the Church and hand themselves over to civil authorities for prosecution and punishment.
The Church continues to remain in disgrace for continuing to cover up and allow continued sexual predation by its priests. Consider Cardinal Law, who cost the Church millions of dollars to oppose and protect its pedophile priests. Yet Pope John Paul brought Cardinal Law to Rome, and put him in charge of the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, and he holds many other senior roles in Rome, far from the reach of the judicial system in the US.
After he left Boston, there remained a significant number of undisclosed priests in the Boston area who confessed to molesting boys, and who continue to work as priests, a situation furthered by Law's intransigence in not naming priests that he aided with their molestation. (See Wikepedia).
Now the Pope himself appears to be repeating the scandalous behavior of protecting his priests while victims are ignored and suffer the anguish of molestation and victimization, while the clergy has padded layers of protection. I suppose if Jesus showed up, the Church would tell him that they don't need him anymore.
As a result of the lawsuits, the Archdiocese of Boston lost millions of dollars in fines and settlements. It also funded the legal defense of accused priests. The archdiocese slipped into large financial deficits. The Archdiocese closed sixty-five parishes before Cardinal Law stepped down from service. In response to the scandal, over fifty priests signed a letter declaring no confidence in Cardinal Law and asking him to resign – something that had never before happened in the history of the Roman Catholic Church in America.
Resignation as Archbishop of Boston
Law submitted his resignation as Archbishop of Boston to the Vatican and Pope John Paul II accepted his resignation on December 13, 2002. He remained a Cardinal and an Archbishop, and was eventually succeeded in Boston in 2003 by Sean O'Malley, O.F.M. Cap..
In a statement and apology Cardinal Law said, "To all those who have suffered from my shortcomings and mistakes I both apologize and from them beg forgiveness". He remained cardinal, which is a separate appointment, and participated in the 2005 papal conclave.
Move to Rome
After his resignation, John Paul appointed Law to a post in Rome, putting him in charge of the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, with the title of Archpriest. He is also a member of the Congregations for the Oriental Churches, the Clergy, Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments, Evangelisation of Peoples, Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, Catholic Education, Bishops as well as the Pontifical Council for the Family. He held membership of all these congregations and of the council before resigning from the governance of the Archdiocese of Boston, and at that time was also a member of the Pontifical Council for Culture.
There is "The Church", i.e. the spiritual faith in The Word of Christ, of God, that all Christians try to live by; then there is "the church", the brick and mortar institution that serves as a place for the faithful to gather and perpetuate their faith as a community. Unfortunately the latter, the brick and mortar institution, is run / managed by flawed human beings, and is therefore subject to all of the ills of any society. In the church's handling of the cases of child abuse, there seems to be a clash between The Church's philosophy of forgiveness and redemption, and civil law's focus on crime and punishment. The abuses must be addressed in all cases of course, as quickly as possible and with the child's wellfare being paramount. But the church has obviously struggled with what "law" prevails in doing so. As to its impact on The Faith, on The Church, it must be realized that human beings can not corrupt the Faith, the Word of Christ, the Word of God. We can ignor or forget the teaching of our Faith, and thereby corrupt ourselves and possibly much of the world around us, but the Spiritual Church, the Word of God, can not be corrupted by humanity.
The rotten liberal chickens of the 60's & 70's came home to roost and we are now paying the price, literally. Now we will do what we should have done, that is scrutinize seminarians. Now we also know that men who want to hide their homosexuality ,NOT PEDOPHILIA in the priesthood, act out. (almost all victims were beyond puberty )They used to think they could counsel them and cure them. Our Church is much better now that what was hidden has come to light. Remember that the offenders were bad not the Church. The response to cases offends some people. It was mostly done out of the ignorance of the times and bishops trying to hide the offenses so the faithful would not be scandalized. Consequently, victims,( like the victims of camp counselors , teachers, protestant ministers, mom's boyfriend or an uncle) suffered. It's a new time and I'm glad we're more conservative. It will not happen again.
I am extremely disappointed this is happening in the Catholic Church & my heart goes out to those who suffered sexual abuse from Priests. I can feel their pain and hurt, because I am a victim of sexual abuse, but not from a Priest. But despite the recent develpoment in the Catholic Church, it still hasn't shaked my faith. I am still a devoted & stunch Ctholic & most mornings, i see myself coincidentally saying my rosary while the news on sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church is being read on CNN.
PS...I am not interested in your view of my Church. I'm sure your 360 view of it would piss me off. I'd be screaming at the TV. Let me just say before hand"you're wrong, we're right" I feel better now.
What I find funny here that I really don't think people understand what Catholicism is, i.e., the difference between Theological Doctrine and Canon Law.
First, this is the Roman Catholic Church...hence, the Latin rite. It's not the only "catholic" church in existence. Catholicism is a rich tradition of multi-rites: the Byzantines are just as much Catholic as the Romans as are the Russian Orthodox. I find it offensive and a gross error to refer to "Catholic" as the Roman Catholic Church. "Roman" should always be placed when referring to the Latin Rite.
To say something is wrong with Catholicism over this mess is not correct. The Roman Catholic Church does not reflect the entire faith. There is a universal theology but each rite has its own Canon Laws. Celibacy is Canon Law, not theologically based (though the Latin Bishops try to link it with Matthew 19:1-2). It is not part of theological doctrine.
The Latin Rite can lift celibacy at any time.
This isn't an argument if celibacy is good or bad; celibacy is a major cause here because it lessened the pool of men to pick from to become priests. I was friends with a priest who told me of the nut cases they allowed into the seminaries: one eventually went to jail for molestation.
But mainly, celibacy was seen as separating the clergy from the lay people: elevating the clergy to a different level. It made the clergy almost exclusive...almost as an insider's club.
I reported on the priest abuse scandal during mid 2000's. Nothing was as heartbreaking or as eye-opening. I can't even believe to tell the manipulation of the Roman powers that be in suppressing the claims. In NJ, they wanted to keep the Charitable Immunity Law to prevent the Church from being sued by those who have been abused. Because NJ had the Charitable Immunity Law, priests with known histories of abuse were shipped to NJ...so the Church couldn't be sued.
There are many abuse cases and to deny abuse is to stick your head in the sand and an injustice to Jesus. The one thing I learned in all of this is that the Clergy: Pope, Bishops and Priests consider their power more important than the people and I truly believe at times, Jesus Christ. This is a power issue; a status quo. And believe me, NOTHING is done in the Roman Catholic Church without the very top knowing it.
But I won't be the judge...God will.
This cannot change my catholic faith,its God we worship not the pope or priests!!!!! Why would anyone wait for sooooo long before reporting abuse, no parent should be that irresponsible. Why would such a large number of people keep quiet for so long?!! Some of the abuse cases are as old as my mum which makes it harder to fathom the long silence.
Oops, I made an error in my post.
Where I said " not theologically based" I meant to say "not part of the faith theological doctrine." In other words, it's not part of the doctrine as are the Trinity, the Transubstantiation, etc.
It has confirmed my decision to formally defect from the church a thousand times over. Anyone who continues to financially support this institution is as morally culpable for child abuse as if they were giving the money to a pimp or trafficker.
i consider myself to be a "Recovering Catholic." I know that I will need to enter a Catholic Church two more times in my lifetime........ at the deaths of both of my parents, but after that, I never plan to darken the door of a Catholic Church, ever again. One of my brothers was molested by a priest. In addition, over the years several other Survivors have come to me and as a unplanned result, I have turned into an Advocate for the abused on 3 continents. I help them get in touch with all forms of the media, for the purpose of seeking healing and exposing this egregious scandal on every continent of the world. The Church has consistently dealt with this scandal in a contemptible and underhanded fashion, by trying to "Silence the Survivors" often through threats of Excommunication. This scurrilous scandal, as Survivors have always known, goes directly to the Seat of Peter. Recently it has been proven that two directives from the Vatican, "Criment Sollicitationis" and "De Delictis Gravioribus" have proven this statement. If you don't believe me, "Google" them!
My son spent some time in a seminary, got a masters in theology and said it was overrun by homosexuals. If you weren't among them, they did their best to force you out. It is way too obvious for the higher-ups not to know about it, therefore they must condone and be a part of it. I know many homosexuals and lesbians but not one that I know of is a pedophile. What is it that draws these people to the Church. If they take their faith seriously they know that they will burn in hell and that is way too good for them. These deviates and the hierarchy that has covered it up should be punished by the law, not the church. There is no crime more despicable than a religious servant of GOD who uses his position to molest children.
Hello CNN friends,
The pope is the father or the leader of the worldwide Catholic Church,
who is against all forms of
sexual child exploitation and sexual child abuse!
Unfortunately, there is growing sex abuse scandal
in the worldwide Catholic Church.
The worldwide Catholic Church is out of control.
God must choose new leaders
so that the worldwide Catholic Church is in control!
Let us Now Connect to make our world
a Better Healthier and Beautiful World
for You and for Me!
Jurgen R. Brul
No I'm not "less likely to attend church now." Is that what you're hoping for in this vicious witch hunt?
"Up to 200 boys." Would that be 199 boys? 5? 1?
People sin, the sins committed are condemned in our faith. Maybe you people should put down your torches and pitchforks and read the Catechism.
Why would I be less likely to go to church now just because the media is salivating over the breaking news that people are hypocrites & sinners and that sin is evil??? That's exactly what the Church has been teaching for 2000 years!
I will never leave Christ's Church. The fullness of the truth of Jesus Christ is known there, and only there. What is going on right now is the harvest, and the weeds are getting cast out and thrown in the fire. (including faithless Catholics that assess Jesus' Church and the faith by the sinners and the smear jobs from wolves in the media). This is but one of the many manifestations we have had of the final judgment.
O MY JESUS, FORGIVE US OUR SINS, SAVE US FROM THE FIRES OF HELL. LEAD ALL SOULS TO HEAVEN, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN MOST NEED OF THY MERCY. AMEN.
I signed out of the Church while these recent allegations were going on. I'd been questioning things for years and when these news came up I couldn't take it more.
Bill Donohue, Catholic League President thinks we should leave Lawrence Murphy alone because he is an old man and it was a long time ago. How does he feel about Nazi war criminals being brought to justice regardless of their age when the law finally catches up with them? Hello...Mr. Murphy needs to be punished for his crimes against children. I don't care how old he is.
As I read the comments, it appears that there are those who will stick with the Catholic Church no matter what happens after the Vatican cover-ups are exposed. Although I somewhat admire your loyolity, I could never be apart of it. If there is a judgment day, heaven help those who participated and condoned a church who was grossly convicted of child molestation. I say convicted after the reported church $2 billion payouts of settlements to abused children.
I have had enough. If the perpetration of abuse by priests upon children throughout history was not enough, the deliberate and calculated cover-up, denial and inaction by the church to police their own has caused this writer to give up the catholic church in favor of one without a Pope and his political hierarchy. Even if we give the Catholic Church a pass for the Spanish Inquisition and the unspoken acquiescence of the holocaust and facilitation of high-ranking Nazi's to escape justice at the end of WWII, the unbridled abuse of children puts the final nail in the coffin for me.
The "scandal" has shaken me to my Catholic core. I am a cradle Catholic, and my faith has always been at the center of my life. I am also a social worker who once worked with sexually abused children. When the sexual abuse by priests and religious, and the cover up by bishops, came to light in a big way in 2002, I threw myself into the church reform fray. Clearly something was terribly wrong with the institution (not the faith!), to have allowed this to have happened. I was sure that other Catholics would listen to the courageous survivors of abuse and respond en masse with compassion and the will to support them in seeking justice and healing, and to work prevent such evil from ever happening again. Sadly, most Catholics have had blinders on, not willing or able to face the truth. Others have sat back, figuring someone else would fix it. Some have even been hostile toward victims of clergy sexual abuse. I cannot fathom this reality. I never, ever thought I would get to this point, but I am beginning to consider myself "post Catholic". My faith remains strong, but I am weary and no longer hopeful that the evil within the institutional church will be overcome. It's been a long, heartbreaking eight years.
I am both a person born into the Catholic faith and a sexual abuse victim during my time in parochial school. Catholic theology never really resonated with me, and under ordinary circumstances would have been happy to have gone my own way spiritually, while retaining respect for those with whom I disagreed.
The way the Church handled both my own case, and thousands of other cases like it, has cemented a personal animus towards that institution like no other. The Catholic Church is plainly and simply arrogant. Their actions suggest that they regard themselves as above civil and moral law when it comes to protecting the wealth, prestige and influence of the organization. This behavior almost always trumps the need for justice for sexual abuse victims. Catholics everywhere should be asking themselves whether or not this is consonant with Christ's teachings.
I used to attend mass back in my practicing Catholic days at Mercy Hospital’s Chapel in Cincinnati. I attended there because my now ex-wife was employed at the hospital and so she and I would attend together. I was pretty big into my faith back then and that piece of bread meant the actual flesh of Christ to me. You know I grew up when they’d placed the chalice under the throat. I grew up watching not a crumb wasted.
By the time I was attending Mercy they had gotten rid of the chalice thing and you could now receive the blessed bread in your hand. And so it was, on one Sunday afternoon, at the Hospital, that a small boy walked by me and a large crumb from his bread fell to the floor. I picked it up and stuck it in my cigarette pack’s cellophane wrapper. I then took it home.
My mother had sent me a piece of art of Jesus with his Sacred Heart showing. It had been hanging on my wall for a couple years. I was told that by hanging the Sacred Heart in your home that Jesus would bless, in a special way, my home. What the special meant I didn’t know but it’s Jesus and so it had to be a good special. And in a marriage that always seemed a bit rocky I thought the Sacred Heart hanging around to be a good thing. And so, I took that large crumb of bread that I brought home and placed it in the center of the Sacred Heart piece of art. It hung there and at times I would even pray under it.
A few years had passed and it was during this time that I began getting into the arts myself. By this time, though, the Sacred Heart was off my wall, and stuck in a box, jammed in the corner of my basement closet. I had removed the Sacred Heart with the crumb of bread in it’s center from my wall when I found out that the priest, Father Kelly, that blessed the bread that day at the hospital was being accused and was later removed for child molestation. Because of this and the art show, I had brought the Sacred Heart back out from the closet because I was having an art show. This was back in 2003. It was then that I painted a painting called the Abused Heart of Christ.
The Abused Heart of Christ was going to hang at my first art show. It was a show that was named after the priest, Mychal Judge, who was killed on 9-11 while giving a man his last rights. I believe a falling rock killed Mychal Judge but I’m not really sure. The painting that I painted was Christ in blood red, and in the center of his chest, I traced a heart. And in the center of the heart, in the still wet paint, I stuck that large crumb in it.
After the painting had dried, I was preparing for the show, and hanging my new paintings at Base Art Gallery, in Cincinnati. The gallery’s director walked up to me and asked me about that painting of Jesus titled The Abused Heart of Christ. I told him what it was all about. Being a Catholic he looked at me in shock and asked how I could desecrate the Eucharist like that. I felt that it was already desecrated by the hands of the molesting priest that blessed it but his question had gotten the best of me and I looked at that painting with that crumb blessed by an abuser and picked it off. I then ate it.
Jay Michaelson once wrote, “It's like we make the same mistake, over and over again, around the world, as we try to translate a disruptive and individualistic practice (transforming experience, grounding ethics in wonder, etc.) into a system which maintains the status quo, binds together a community of householders, and offers a little bit of God's mojo to people without the luxury, taste, or karma for mystical practice. Perhaps it's the necessary mistake of religion.
What Michaelson writes here I would have to agree with, but there truth to be found when grounding ethics in wonder and it can be transforming. I come to this conclusion of disagreement here because that blessed piece of bread from a pedophile's hand that I ate that evening off the painting at the gallery, did offer me a bit of karma and it was a mystical experience… I never felt so isolated or guilty as if I was doing wrong.
It just made me think… I better watch out and truly know the heart of the ones who are doing the blessings on the things I hold dear, or ones that are directing their blessings on a justifiable hunger that I yearn for in a faith that is supposed to be more pure then merely a crumb of bread that falls uneaten from the hand of a peaceful child onto the floor. I guess some things are better left alone.
"The sacred is everywhere." But I do not believe sacredness to be in the hands of an abuser who rapes child, or a Pope that covers it up or in the hands of any faith that would allow it to continue. No, some things are nasty and will tear you and everyone you love apart. The bread from a pedifile priest is one of them.
Just a simple thank you to The Creator of any fresh baked bread is all you need to make it whole. Then take and eat it because it's your own blessing about to become a part of your own flesh made to be given up to no one. In this there is sacredness too... just a simple word of thanks, without all the mumbo-jumbo.
Did this Pope hide a pedophile?
He certainly knew... but can we blame it on his being abused when he was in the Nazi youth.... But he is a man know and if he didn't protect children against men that were abusing them and he knew this... I think it's time for a resignation.
The Vatican replied on Thursday that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith chaired by Ratzinger had suggested "restricting" Murphy's public functions and "requiring (him to) accept full responsibility for the gravity of his acts."
I wonder if Murphy was ever in the Nazi Youth or ever abused as a child in the same institution as he was abusing others.
I've left the Catholic Institution going on a little over two years now.
Did Jesus ever cure a deaf man?
Well I know of over 200 of them that were silenced by the now Pope as he did not speak for them but allowed the abuse to continue.
Anyway. I coming to see all Patriarchal Religions as a threat to children.... I guess it's been this way for at least 6000 years.... We must come to develope a balance between the Matiarchal ways and the Patriarchal ones and out of this we will find the Ourstory is Sacred.
What do you get when you change the e in mystery to an o?
See, Mystory is yourstory is ourstory is herstory is hisstory and it is all Sacred Mystery.
Spirituality is looking for God and finding Him on your own.
Religion is letting someone else define what God is for you.
I was ordained a priest in 1979. Including seminary, I was in the system for 18 years. I left the corporate priesthood 27 years ago because I was tired of getting hit on by gay priests who are the majority, and scandalized by the sexual and financial improprieties I witnessed in the priesthood. I have been involved with CITI, http://www.rentapriest.com, and using my priestly training to serve the 70% of Catholics who no longer practice their faith. My wife Sally and I coordinate a support group in the Seattle area for people who were sexually abused by priests, nuns, and church employees. People are overwhelmingly positive and delightfully surprised to learn that I am a married priest. As one man put it, "You guys can be the safe and effective alternative. When are they going to let you work out of the parish and say Mass?" Oh, likely never. The gay priests have it too good and they're not going to give up their ground. They have lots of money. They can wait out this latest storm and continue to have a good time. Guard your children.
No wonder the Bible states that “forbidding to marry” is a ‘teaching of demons.’
1 Timothy 4:1-3) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; 3 forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.
if the church went by the bible the priest would not be shifted around to molest again
1 Corinthians 5:11-13) But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
Where were the civil authorities, the inspectors, the social authorities forty years ago when this abuse happened.Why were they not protecting their citizens and punishing crimes? Were there no state institutions at the time of the flower power/ free sex generation? Are you trying to tell me that this wasn't going on in the rest of society? Which will give the best results? To sue the government for damages or to go for the Catholic Church?
How come governments even today let paedophiles back on the streets to continue their life of crime after a couple of years when they know from recent psycology that they cannot be reformed? Must we wait another forty years to see the results?
As a Catholic, I do not put my faith in priests, but in Jesus Christ. Those who have a crisis of faith right now over this (a) are naive to think this sort of thing could never happen and (b) exalt priests to a status. If they would check their catechism the church teaches that priests are sinners in need of forgiveness like you and I. It plainly teaches not to confuse the office, the holiness of the Sacraments and the Gospel they spread with the individual priest. Anyone can fail in their vocation. Some succeed – some do not. These men were failures in their vocation. Those outside the Catholic Church prefer to stereotype us as idolators or people who blindly follow human authorities based on the poor understanding of some. I have experienced more emotional abuse from non-Catholics for being Catholic, and little or none from fellow Catholics. Talk about visciousness – take a look/listen to yourselves.
I am a cradle/convert Catholic and I have to say, that these priests are not priest, but pedophiles and have used the Catholic Church as a shield to protect their Identity. The Church believes in forgiveness in sin through a contrite heart in confession. Many of these pedophiles could not repent, so they didn't know what to do with them, but move them around. The Church's mistake was not knowing what to do with these pedophiles. The problem was, they were ordained priest as well. God will judge these people different then others and without repentance they will wish they were never born; however we must remember that what a priest says on the alter comes from God, because they were ordained.
It is a shame that these pedophiles have tarnished the Church, but we also must remember that it isn't the people that make the Church Holy, it is the catechism of the Catholic Church and the Holy Sacraments that make the Church Holy. It isn't fair to the good priests in the world who have given their lives to God and have made the world a better place. Lets not forget, Jesus picked Judas as an Apostle as well, but don't forget about the other eleven and what they did for Christianity, by giving their lives.
I pray that the people who were abused will have peace in their lives and that someday they will have forgiveness in their soul and I pray for the repentance of those who committed such a grave sin.
Sex abuse, lies, and stealing of Democrats have turned me away from the Democrat party forever.
I used to be a loyal democrat footsoldier, canvassing for whoever the unions told me. Then one day a famous Democrat came to our local Arkansas Democrat precinct and raped me. I saw how the media protected him, and figured I should just shut up. But then I heard about Ted Kennedy and how charges of how he raped and killed a girl when he was a young woman were covered up, and I knew it wasn't an isolated case. Just as the Catholics stopped believing after the people they trusted most betrayed them, so I stopped believing in the Democrats.
I am a Catholic.
Silence has perpetuated these crimes. The focus now should be on the victims. Not the good reputation of the Church, the archbishops, the priests. All Catholics should be outraged and speak out for the VICTIMS and their loved ones.
The horrific crimes upon children should have been prosecuted by the police decades ago. The Vatican is not the law of the land, and if it was, it failed miserably.
New leaders are needed. Leaders who put the lives of innocent children before the adults, who have used their power to rob them of their purity.
Has my faith been shaken? Yes and No. My faith in the words of Jesus will never be shaken. Is my faith in the Catholic Church, the leaders shaken (all the way to the TOP) ....YES.
Solution? To gain my respect and admiration in justice, the Pope should hand all files of pedophiles over to the Police, with the blessing of prosecuting each and every priest found Guilty.
Furthurmore, they should all be defrocked, then excommunicated for harming the souls of children and their families.
After the this is done, how about an intensive investigation into why homosexuals and pedophiles are drawn to the priesthood? A psychological analysis on each person entering the seminary. This is the age of enlightement, let's shine a light on this issue once and for all.
Is the Pope Infallible?
Many Catholics on this post seem to be suggesting that those running the church are 'only human' and therefore the teachings and message of the catholic church remain wholly intact. The caveat however is that the Pope (per the Doctrine of Infallibility) can make no mistakes.
My question is how can you current believers have it both ways? If the Pope is fallible then why not adjust that doctrine accordingly and make some progress out of this mess? And if the Pope is perfect, then why claim leadership 'humanness' as your excuse to look the other way and still be devout?
A Former Catholic
As a catholic from Africa,i believe,yes we have priests who have erred;still we are all human and as such we urge our church to take action against the villains.this will not drastically change our faith in the church.
It so sad to know that our church leaders that we look up to in our journey to Heaven are been talk about like this. Though salvation is personal.
Definitely it will affect some catholic faith and doctrine. I know that Christian from other religions will want to use it against Catholics, like they always say “Catholics are not strong Christians”. But they should know that in every twelve there is always a Judas, that does not mean that we support what those priest did, what I mean is that there is always a bad egg and there are still good and faithful priest out there that are still keeping to the church doctrines and faith.
As for me, I know that I’m affected because it so painful to know that Catholic Church and it’s Doctrines is been tarnish but Jesus is the founder of the Catholic Church and I know no matter what will happened in generation to come, CATHOLIC CHURCH WILL NOT DIE , IT WILL ALWAYS STAND. Priest will come and go, Bishops will come and go, Popes will come and go but the church will remain. So I’m a Catholic and my faith and Doctrines still stand.
I am of the opinion that sex abuse by anybody, be he a clergy or not should be condemned. That is why we extoll the letter of Pope Benedict XVI. But I must submit that the media, including CNN, are quite unfair in their report. They only report interviews with people against the Papal letter in Ireland. But many people are happy with it. But these are left out in the media reporting. It seems the media today has been hijacked by atheists and ant-Christians. We must all answer for our actions of misleading the public by our one-sidedness in these issues!!!
The Pope, Bishops and Priests are human prone to sins like any human being. Those calling for the head of the Pope for sins committed by a late Priest carry their stain of sins conceal. Let them go and reconcile themselves with God and let God alone judge the guilty. I remain a catholic here in Nigeria and nothing can change that. Long live the Catholic Church, long live the Pope
In the face of these sex scandals rocking the Catholic Church as true catholics we must all remain resolute about our faith. the cathoilc church as a universal church remains no amount of scandals can change a true catholic. The church is not about the Pope nor the Priests its centred around Christ Jesus.
As a Catholic,I love my church so much because that is where my heart and soul is.This reports of abuse by irresponsible priests have really dissapointed me and shaken my faith and trust in the church.Although I cannot leave the Catholic church because its the church that Christ left us,I would urge the Pope to do alot to solve the problem of immoral priests.I also think the media is blowing the issue out of proportion by trying to involve the Pope directly in the scandal I think this is irresponsible.I want to urge the Pope to be strong as we Catholic faithful in Kenya are supporting you with our prayers.
Two wrongs? Try 100 million? this has been happening throughout history and has been enabled by our 'culture of silence' being passed down for thousands of years. With fists clenched, I thank God that the cycle finally seems to be breaking, and pray that the billions of other victims (catholic and otherwise) speak out as well. I also pray that this spells the continued decline of the catholic church's power and that of all corrupt religious institutions.
India is crisscrossed by schools and other institutions run by Jesuits.
Yet thanks to India’s dodgy editorial class very few in India know that the Vatican has paid out close to a hundred million dollars to compensate for victims of child sexual abuse by albeit “a small minority” of priests.
The Indian media has barely reported that story.
Was the media’s heinous silence an act of concern for Indian children or a hideously wrongheaded act of leaving well enough alone ?
Abuse of power often happens in plain sight, since to the busy and self absorbed lay person, the powerful appear glamorous and formidable and their prey appear to be rebellious, despicable and in many ways, asking for it.
As somebody who has conscientiously refused to do business the way it “normally” is in so called democratic societies and who has been almost destroyed for my pains, I am able to feel deep appreciation for the heroes who spoke out and for those who heard them, felt outrage and who together managed to extract a measure of accountability from one of the most powerful and ambitious organisations on this planet.
Since the past two decades, the Government of India, the Government of my own state, Andhra Pradesh, the Andhra Pradesh High Court , the Chief Information Commissioner and State Information Commissioner have combined to impress on me that what works in India is what I have called the “patronage paradigm” – the paradigm of shoddiness, irresponsibility, cronyism and corruption” – and that ideas of the rule of law and democratic processes are merely spectacles to lull the gullible.
I have been denied the recognition that were commended to me by one former Chief Minister of my state, one former minister of home affairs, one speaker of the Lok Sabha, several prominent ministers of the central cabinet, eminent intellectuals and freedom fighters.
I have been unable to earn a decent living.
The office of the Governor of Andhra Pradesh incited my neighbours to cut off my water supply.
The information commissions in the state and at the centre denied me my right to information on spurious, brazenly illegal grounds and punished me for daring to object.
The high court denied me my right to competent counsel and punished me for complaining.
Even as we speak, Dr Manmohan Singh”s office, “Daredevil” Pratibha Patil’s Rashtrapati Bhavan, Chief Information Commissioner Wajahat Habibullah, State Information Commissioner CD Arha are all locked in a most perverse and ignominious conspiracy of silence to deny me justice.
Even as the Prime Minister’s Office maintains a guilty silence in my case, it appears to have jumped through hoops to heap honour on a businessman alleged to be a serial swindler.
India’s editorial class is as dense, amoral and narcissistic.
Variations of this comment have appeared in almost every major Indian online publication plus in a few abroad.
However, not a single editor or reporter has had the professionalism to pick it up and make it “impact”.
My credentials are strong and I have taken much trouble to meet many editors personally, usually on impeccable referrals.
Our “know-it-all-in -chiefs” have had nothing but smirks to offer.
When I sought the solidarity of the press, Shekhar Gupta (editor in chief of New Indian Express) advised me, “You cannot go around taking pangas (quarrels) with people, yaar.”
Even my comments are mutilated.
Vinod Mehta’s “Outlook” has banned my comments on risible grounds.
The Hindu crawled.
It published “spin” by corrupt officials and got hissy with me for pointing out, with evidence, its craven, yellow soul.
The Indian Press (with a solitary exception) blacked out the fervent open letter written by Padma Vibhushan Kaloji Narayana Rao.
That dear man , clear as a bell in his nineties, had laid his head on my shoulder, hugged me and wept.
What about “civil society” in India ?
Since close to a year now, I have written to the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative, Campaign for Judicial Accountability And Reform, Forum For Judicial Accountability, MKSS (Aruna Roy)and Anna Hazare regarding this cascading delinquency of constitutional bodies in India.
There has not been one constructive response.
They all appear to be in helpless denial of the awful truth that an innocent citizen has been hounded and humiliated since two decades, not for any bad behaviour or wrongdoing, but for resisting the dilution of the values of the Indian constitution and standing up for the correct administration of the Right To Information Act 2005.
Please visit and participate at http://sathyagraha.blogspot.com/ :
Andhra Pradesh High Court’s Pernicious Rebellion Against The Law .05/29/09
RTI Act 2005 Abuse In Andhra Pradesh- SIC Cheats! Chief Secretary Lies!05/07/09
Prejudiced CIC Laps Up PMO Lies 05/05/09
Compelling Criminality. Divakar S Natarajan and Varun Gandhi Cannot Both Be Wrong ! 01/28/09
And India’s editorial class will not report the story!
News and views from Divakar S Natarajan’s, “no excuses”, ultra peaceful, non partisan, individual sathyagraha against corruption and for the idea of the rule of law in India.
Now in its 18th year.
Any struggle against a predatory authority is humanity’s struggle to honour the gift of life.
"Rotten liberal chickens" according to one "conservative" are the root of the problem. Now that's the pot calling the kettle black if ever I've heard it. Now the conservative paradigm has always been: there is dogma, there is tradition – don't touch a thing, it's St.Peter's church. And so we had and have unmarried male priests running the parishes and telling people to not have sex except to procreate . Doesn't get more conservative than that even if you put a guitar on him and sing in English. It's still moldy old Catholicism. But, in my opinion, the true "liberal" position would have been quite different: allowing both men and women to be priests and marriage permitted to the clergy. That would have been a stark contrast to the closed society the conservatives from St. Peter on have lived in. The "liberality" that never was is probably the very thing that could have changed the culture of MALE REPRESSED SEXUALITY CRIME and brought the church into the twentieth century with a new moral compass. Isn't it ironic that the current Pope actually participated in the conservative cover-ups of the last few decades. I mean the Pope cannot even admit guilt and ask forgiveness. Rotting liberal chickens would have saved a lot of children from a lot of conservative horror Pat. Your not a Christian when you blame others. You have the mote in your own eye.
Am a Roman Catholic and i went to seminary. Throughout my years in seminary i have come to realize that the Catholic church is a strong institution like other churches out they and as well they face many temptations.
I also come to realize that many mistakes has been made in the past at the curse is trying to save and protect the secrets of the church. But as for this scandal affecting my faith in believe in God, its absolutely NO! I don't worship the church but God, men are bound to wrong but not God.
If any one is considering leaving the Catholic church,that means the person is not sure of his/her faith. Its not church we believe in,but God.
The scandal does not in any way affect my faith!
@ A.Maverick... The church is infallible, the Pope is not! Jesus established his church through Peter. He knew we were human and that we would make mistake.
The Church has seen and has been persecuted by the Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Napoleon, Hitler, Communism and has never been destroyed. Jesus said the "Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it" Matthew 16:18. If it comes from God it will stay and if it doesn't it will go away. Well the church has been around 2000 years and I don't see it going anywhere.
The Devil wants to destroy the church. Yes the Devil! We tend to forget about him, because that is what he wants. He wants to be hidden in all of this and to be on the sideline as a coach having his demons try to destroy anything that comes from God. Forgiveness and reconciliation, will defeat him.
Isn't it interesting that these Priest committed the worse sin and it is consistent throughout the church? i am sure that Satan had a big part of it.
One other interesting fact is that in Lourdes back in the 19th century, the Virgin Mary appeared to St Bernadette and wanted everyone to pray for the priest and said there will come a great persecution of the church.
It seems to me that the Catholic church is now going through the passion of Christ, the scourging and suffering just as Christ did, but don't forget the Resurrection:)
Well,the recent general sexual scandal and accusation against the Catholic clergies is worrisome,(i.e if however discovered to be true and in the affirmative). Be that as it may, that should not make a sincere worshipper in the catholic church lose faith or quit his/her service and devotion to God. The goodnews about christianity is that it is not about an individual but about Christ Jesus on whom the church is built. Let's learn from history. Since the denial of Jesus by Peter did not put an end to Christianity, to Peter himself and christian faithfuls at that time, the fall of any clergy man is not to deter any from worshipping God. Afterall the Bible warns that if a Brother 'falls', let those who think they stand take heed and pray for him, lest they themselves should fall in the same temptation. Let God be the judge! Afterall,who has no sin?
I think of the church as a business, which it is, that is failing. Fast
My impression is that the clergy in the Catholic Church has a tendency to cover this and othe types of misbehavours and crimes -the case of Murphy. The clergy seems not to have autocritic as a virtue even though they practice confession, which is private and should remain always so. There is cover up and I regret this very much but this does not affect my faith neither my practice. I believe in Jesus as God and saviour even though we, as his followers, do not always practice what he taught us to do. He condemmed very heavely the scandal of the children.
Don S that's absolutey true other denominations have some abuse as well, but it you want to look at it satistically, the Catholic church has a 96% greater rate of abuse, so how do you explain that my friend?
Surely I keep my faith in one god, but also demand that all those priests and pope included should be seen as normal people and being processed by the police authorities. Personally I don’t see the pope and its priets as someone sacred. They should be put in jail if they deserve that. Are any of you 100% sure about what is really going on inside the pope or priests mind and hearth?
Judas again – does it surprise anyone that Catholics are human and suffer from the same problems as the rest of humanity?
The thing that troubles me is the reporting. Its one sided and worse it totally neglects to mention what the societal norms were 30 years ago. No teacher, no coach, no plumber would have been treated differently. Abuse was simply not the high-priority issue it is now.
People forget that those of us who were abused were told to simply stay away from uncle in the future, that it was a 'family matter' and that all that happened was that Dad first beat uncle and then kept an eye on him – which didn't protect the others in the neighborhood.
People forget that when those of us who were abused went to the police on our own uncle was slapped on the wrist, paid a fine, and picked up trash for 2 weeks.
It is unfair to retroactively apply today's standards to the church of the 70s because just like every other institution they could only do what they could at the time.
I'm feeling sorry for these children & i will pray for them to have peace in there harts and forgive as the lord tought us
also llet us think any child can face the same act every were even at schools so it's better to pray for these week peopel
I'm so sorry to say don't some fathers bilogical fathers ) do the same act with there owne children ???? it's bad totaly and greif sin
but let us not give the dviel the chance to use us to distroy our faith in the lord
My Faith is still strong& will remain stron no matter what hapen also i have confedance in my Cathluic church & will contenue attending Mass as well as I trust in our Pope Dissiones
we all as christians must trust in the Lord & he comanded us to love One another as he loved us
Let us all be One to pray to the Lord to unite his pepole all over the world & not be One agenst another we are all having the same faith in Jesus THE ONLY LORD WHO GAVE HIS LIFE TO SAVE US & LET US ALL PRAY TO EACH OTHER SO WE WOULD NOT FALL INTO TEMTATION
God Bless you all & may his peace be in your hartes
I am sad to hear the news of the scandal, and I pray that God may heal the wounds of those affected and have mercy on the priests involved. I believe in the Catholic Church, I love the Catholic Church but I am aware that we are all sinners looking for the Grace of God to do better in our lives. We are all weak human beings, but with God we can be strong.
When I make a mistake, I am scared of God as I have sinned.
Those priests have made horrible crimes. Are they not scared of God? Do they believe in God? Did Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger believie in God when he transferred those priests and gave them chances to hurt children?... Do those priests and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger have faith? Of course, they do. When they commit crimes like that? Did they not think of God above them and watching them? Are they not scared of anything? Do they believe in their prayers? I doubt it! Don’t they think that God will, some day, come down and they will be the worst sinners in front of God?
Do they believe that there is God? They simply don’t!
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger’s prayers, to me, are jokes!
I am catholic and very sorry but you can find pedophiles in other religious comunities. More than 90% of abuses happen in the families (parents, brothers, friends...). Abuses of priests are dreadful but now only the catholic church is under pressure and other cases are not mentioned.
As a Roman Catholic I feel ashamed for what these abuses have done to distort the chursh that Jesus Christ established. It does not however shake my faith or my devotion to God and the gospel message.
I would like to suggesdt that the Pope step down and do public penance as a sighn of the repentance that all the hierarchy involved in this should do for allowing this to go inchecked and unpunished.
Starting at the age of 10, I was abused at St. John's Catholic Church in McLean, Virginia. This was not the first experience for me, however, as an older neighborhood boy won that prize! My sexual abuse at the hands of two Priest continued until I (stupidly) went to St. John Vianney Preparatory High School (for the priesthood) in Goochland, Virginia (just outside of Richmond). There I was introduced to Father John E. Leonard who took up the abuse until I left in the middle of my Sophomore year. At this point, I was no longer abused by the church. Back in the late 60's, early 70's, you had no options. I even told my dad, but he just refused to believe this could happen. Another issue was – at the age of 10, I received something I was not getting at home – Love! This may seem a bit silly to many who read this, but as a boy, struggling to realize if I was gay or not, the attention, the adoration, of men who would do anything for you, do anything you wanted them to do, and would do anything you wanted done to you – well, it's pretty all consuming. I was never "hurt" physically by any of my abusers. I'm not sure how much I was hurt psychologically either. And I believe, that my emotional issues stemmed more from getting Love at church than at home. At St. John Vianney, I also met a friend, who will always remain nameless, and he and I had "threesomes" with Fr. Leonard on occasion. We would get some pot, toke up, and go get "sexed up" by the horny priest! What a great time it was! This friend and I had an ongoing love / sexual relationship of our own. Sometimes in my house in McLean on breaks from school. I loved him so much... After I left St. John Vianney's, I never had love like that again. But I survived, with no scars – I believe. I successfully did the "right thing" as it was told to me, and never told a soul for years – in college – I had many friends who could relate and we often discussed this late into the evening – sometimes laughing, sometimes crying. Continuing the "right thing" to do, I eventually married, had two wonderful sons, and never had sex with men again. I became a Scout leader, and was probably the most well liked by both the boys and parents. I understood boys and could relate to almost any issue they had. I believe I have hundreds of boys, now men, that have benefitted from my love for them, in a non-sexual way. I followed for years, the attempted prosecution of Father Leonard in both the Richmond Diocese and the Legal system. It amazed me how he skated through the system, to only be transferred to parish churches, where he no doubt continued his hunt for young boys. A few years ago, I was ready to face the fire, and I was ready to contact the police and testify – but I then heard from my brother that finally, "they" convicted him. Frankly, I never checked that on my own – I was happy to believe that all was taken care of. At one point in this process of decision, I emailed a person within the Diocese of Richmond who I had read was an advocate for abusers and I recounted my history in a very long email. I never heard back. Not that I really expected to. I want to emphasize, that in my case, while the abuse was certainly illegal and morally corrupt, I find myself having to also say that love between a man and a boy might not be totally damaging or wrong at all. I've struggled with this all my life – is it okay for me to have enjoyed the "love" and the compassion (yes, compassion) it taught me! One of the priests at St. John's in McLean would often tell me of historical figures who had relationships with boys as part of the culture. Years later, in college, I read where that was true (by all accounts). If that were true, I suppose it was OK for me. I guess I'll never know....
Note to CNN: I really hope my email address is kept private. If you wish to contact me further on this, please do. I'm open to anonymous discussion at this point in my life. It's only been within the last year that I had a long heart to heart discussion of this aspect of my life, with my wife of 26 years. I don't know why I waited so long....
Throughout history, religion has been responsible for a large proportion of the suffering in the world – yet religious beliefs are based in ancient myths and legends that should have been discarded centuries ago.
I was raised in the Catholic church. I was not sexually abused, but certainly I was the recipient of verbal and corporal abuse, as were many of my classmates. I truly learned what fear meant. My stomach was a mess before each catechism class, lest I forgot to adequately spit back the required lesson, word perfect, albeit without understanding hardly a word of it.
During an interview, Alfred Hitchcock was asked how he became such a master of fear. His response was interesting; he replied: "Quite simply, I was raised by the Jesuits!"
For my part, the Catholic church has much to answer for, on many levels.
Historically they have interfered with many civilizations, imposing their version of self righteous imperialism on various nations. The Jesuits clearly interfered with the policies of other nations, as well as draining their resources for Roman coffers. They preyed on the poor to build their churches. All of this in the name of religion, which of course had nothing to do with the original message Jesus taught.
A friend of mine was a Jesuit for many years and he told me that a large number of his brother seminarians were either gay or secretly married!
I do not believe that either being gay, nor the prohibition of marriage inclines one to pedophilia, however, this injunction against marriage breeds loneliness and frustration, which can lead to breaking of the rules, and hence the secretive hypocracy endemic within the church.
This scandal has been going on for a long time. The church's response has been to rally against the claims, and either deny, or bribe and then to hide behind their fallacious religious facade, and then to forget. This will not do! Pedophiles must be handed over to civil authorities in whichever country they live. This is the only way to deal with the problem.
For this, and many other reasons, the church is nothing more to me than an archaic rotting carcass, clad as an overblown, self righteous, Roman business institution, masquerading as a spiritual entity.
I am relieved that I no longer consider myself a Catholic!
Everybody needs to realize that priests are human beings. The only difference is that they live under such scrutiny, that any mistake they may commit, or may have committed, is going to be taken out of proportion. Sure there are, there have been, and there will always be child molesters. But if one of them happens to belong to the One True Church. The one founded by Saint Peter, and Jesus Christ Himself. Then there is going to be a huge media circus around it. Basically this happens because this world is evil; and it takes on any opportunity to attack the Church, and to lead away, those weak souls that fall for its many lies. All of us that belong to Christ, know better than that; and know that any one mistake, committed by any one individual or individuals, doesnt alter the purpose, power, or effectiveness of the Holy Sacraments, that we receive during our Holy Mass..
In this world, the Truth will always be met with war..
The only "view of religion" that should "affect" our decisions is the word of God on the Bible. Here is one principle to meditate upon.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8.
3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control his own body[a] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; 6and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. 7For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
I am a lifelong catholic and I believe in the ideals of the Catholic church. However, the past 20 years has had a great affect on the credibility of the Catholic church, and how I view the church. Firstly, the Catholic church can no longer occupy the moral and ethical high ground as it once did, and will be seriously hampered going forward until it comes to terms on this issue. It needs to resolve the issue and provide some form of justice to the many victims. They have betrayed and abandoned the flock to what appears protecting the perpetrators of this abomination.The people, (who are the church) are exposed to becoming victims of vicious crimes. As for myself, I will always be a catholic, but I have distanced myself from the clergy and church apparatus. I no longer trust them and will follow my instincts on what I think is right and wrong, and who I will believe and listen to. I no longer attend church services, which in turn means that I do not encourage my family either, or support church functions. I have become disillusioned with the church leaders. It is going to take some time to heal and get over this.
I have been a practicing Catholic my entire life. I also attended Catholic educational institutions for most of my education. While I never experienced any abuse, I learned long ago that every priest, brother and nun is human just like any other human. Bad or evil people may be found in any faith tradition and any institution. We should not judge the entirety of the Catholic Church, its faithful, and those in religious orders by those guilty of these crimes or the coverups.
That being said, I am concerned, even outraged, that appropriate steps were not taken to protect the victims of abuse and prosecute those who committed crimes. When allegations were made, appropriate investigations should have taken place, including the involvement of appropriate civil authorities. Catholics and non-Catholics alike should demand justice be served.
I am angry and saddened, but I am not going to leave the Catholic Church or abandon my Christian faith.
I have followed with utter amazement the obvious bias that have been exhibited by CNN in the reportage of this 'so called' scandal by the catholic church.I have watched with interest the blantant attempt by the mainstream media to tie this to Pope Benedict XVI.If it is not that the pope did not reactly fortitiously,it is that he might have been involved when he was cardinal in the 80s Agreed the church has been less than perfect in this instance as in so many other instances in centuries past.The fact still remains that there is no practising catholic that believes that the catholic church as an institution is perfect or have ever been.We do know that our priests,bishops,cardinals and popes are products of our society where crimes are committed by its members be they priests or lay apostolate.Therefore to ask me how the scandal has affected my trust in the church is like asking me why do I still believe in Christ when he chose twelve disciples -one of them betrayed him,one denied him severally and another doubted his resurrection.These disciples did not diminish Our Lord Jesus Christ in any way but rather show us poignantly that humans are by their very nature frail and imperfect."Let he without sin cast the first stone".In these days of 'soft sell' and tabloid news reporting, reporters and journalists have degenerated to just pulling every other person down except for their ilk.When it is not athletes,it is politicians and now it is the turn of the clergy.One had hoped that the CNN would have been a little more circumspect.But I guess that would be asking too much in a world were ratings rise due to the number of scandals reported rather than reponsible and unbiased news reporting.SHAME!!!!
I was abused when I was 14 or so by my Sunday School teacher, a man in his late 20s / early 30s who was heading off to seminary. We went to a Methodist Church. I told my parents, but they didn't do anything because "nice families" didn't talk about those things in the 70s.
For years I categorized it in "it wasn't that big a deal" – but then I realized it was. I've wondered who else he went on to hurt, but I'll never know. Anyway, it doesn't just happen to boys in the Catholic church.
This is my biggest fear. Take my kids to church and have someone molest them. This is why I quit taking my kids and my grandchildren to your church(s). I hope everyone finds out who you people really are before it is too late.
Having faith has nothing to do with going to church! I will not loose my faith, but do not accept any religions in my home. These people should be prosecuted, not protected. Being who they are, we might be doing them a favor buy putting them were they belong, in jail! They get to have all the sex the want! At the same time keeps their dirty hands off our kids.
I was raised catholic and never got a good feeling from the church. People were not warm and leaders were discriminatory. My family quit the church when I was about 11. Catholics have done a lot of bad things in the name of their religion: spanish inquisition, telling people in poor countries that it's a sin to use birth control, etc. I've noticed a lot of hypocrisy in the religion, such as that not many americans abide by the catholic rules, especially the one about birth control. It's because their rules are very archaic. They're also against abortion but I don't see many catholic families adopting babies that would've been aborted. And now all the news about what many of the priests have been doing. If they will not abide by the moral codes of the church, why should any of the followers. A religion is defined by its leaders.
I know people expected drastic decisions from the pontiff, but he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. its terrible to be let down be the very same people we confide in. These allegations are not knew, and we share in the pain of the victims, but we should also forge ahead and leave our children and upcoming priest a befitting legacy. Let the church renew our faith in them and build a better world for us all.
do roman catholics ever read and understand the bible, or do they really know their doctrine? is the roman catholic's doctrine in agreement to the teachings of the bible- or Christ's teaching? the victims then kept silent because they were taught that if they TALK against the priest, they will burn to hell, isn't it? how can the priest ask forgiveness, when they are the ones who suppose to forgive sins of the people... i disagree that the roman catholic church is THE church that Jesus built ....actually 1'm not surprised what is going on in the roman catholic church..... peace!
I was just ordained a deacon last year and expecting ordination this next June. I am convinced that the Truth will set us free. The sex abuse scandals are proof that we as clergy have to be holy priests. But also, each faithful, and each human being has the right and the obligation to the Truth. Find the truth about the sex abuse scandals, not the sensational (making cases from 50 yrs ago, look like they are happening today), and the journalistic "sell newspapers" kind of lies. Read the "John Jay College of Criminal Justice" study which was commissioned by the US Bishops Conference as an unbiased analysis. It will reveal alot.
Thank God for the Catholic Church,
No, this crisis has not shaken my Catholic faith! , however i think the institutional Church needs to be reformed. I personally don't think "Celibacy" is the issue, rather it is "transparency".
Having said that I think the media is too harsh on the Catholic Church and the current Pope. Other Christian denominations and other major religions also have this issue. I have a few friends at work, one a muslim and the other a hindu, and they keep telling me "how did the Church/Pope allow this to happen ", and the honest answer i could give is " i don't know, it is wrong". However, i did tell them that these thing probably happen within their own religious framework, but they don't know it. We have to remember these priests and bishops are mere humans and nothing more, and just like everyone else they are prone to sin.
In a way i think what is happening is a good thing, it's a good thing for the Church to purge aways these corrupt/filthy priests and to enforce a "zero tolerance" for any or all of these despicable acts. And as for the bishops and any other member of the Church that know or knew of such acts then that "zero tolerance" should be applied to them too. In Church language, let them be in Anathema!!!!
The Pope should do the honorable thing and simply step down.
The church should re-structure the entire organization.
More bad news will surface in the next few weeks.
If this doesn't bring down the church, then truly we have reached the pinnacle of our own immorality. These people should be jailed without question. They are not fit to live among us, let alone lead us in spiritual matters. This is a dreadful, terrifying, shameful matter and should be dealt with secularly.
How anyone can hurt a child is beyond me. If you represent God and hurt a child there is a special place in Hell for them. Enough is Enough. Children were not put on this earth for men's sexual gratification.
This is not a matter of faith. This is a social issue. There are people pro or against abortion. There are people pro or against homosexuality. Molesting and abusing children sexually and physically is a crime and not a moral issue. Whoever committed these crimes MUST be prosecuted. When Jesus said: "Let the children come to me" He was not intending to have an orgy with them, but protect them.
I think that the Cathlic church should be taken apart starting at the very top this has been alowed to go on. Why isn't anyone being held responsible for crimes against children.
The Bible is clear: Jesus is the way and not Maria and the pope. I pray for the victims and not the (real) believers .. they should know better.
This church scandal is sick .I canot believe that people who attend the Catholic church are so blind and naive . Why is it taking so long to have the predators put in jail . Now .
The "forbidding to marry" of priests will be the next "enduring cornerstone" of the Catholic Church to change, because of secular pressure and not from God. Maybe that will help with the pedophile problem.
it is time for the Catholic religion to get out of the dark ages and let the priests get married and stop wrecking the lives of innocent children. It is a joke that there is denial and forgiveness for these truly sick, perverted people. I hope they all burn in hell, along with their lies and sickness.
i am angery at the church. I had the great privalage of knowing some amazing priest but not even that could cause me to raise my children catholic. or in any church. i can teach my children the bible at home until the cleregy of every church expells those who use any believe in god (or gods) to hurt others.
Any act of abuse is shameful, as the Church has acknowledged and for which it has apologized and dearly paid. But what is also shameful is how the media has singled out the Catholic Church for exploitation and sensationalism. Shame on CNN and other media outlets for not reporting the whole story — that the number of abusive priests is no more and no less than abusers in the general population. At least the Church is trying to weed these pariahs out of its seminaries and parishes.
Wake up people! My advice is to keep your kids away from priests. All Priests. You can't tell the good ones from the bad. These have not been isolated events. It is a world wide problem with tens of thousands of victims and the chuch has done a good job covering it up. I suspected long ago that the confessional box was where the priests uncovered their knowledge of unsuspecting young boys. For your sins do eight Hail Mary's, one Our Father and meet me at the Rectory after school. I personally, have left the Catholic Church!
I had a very good friend who was molested as a young child, her reactions were very normal, depression, anorexia, Bulimia, inability to create a trusting relationship with a man later in life.
The molesters practically kill these children, therefore I think the action to take toward the molesters, after the trial in court, should be life in prison.
I also find it ridiculous to have a cut off date where the molester no longer can be prosecuted, as it often takes many years for the victims to finally face the horrendous experience and gather the courage to come forward.
So in this regard again, I find this type of crime should be treated the same as murder.
My family is New England Irish Catholic. The men in red dresses have run the Roman Catholic Church into the ground with their greed, arrogance, fear of change and total lack of leadership skills. How do we, the average Catholics, who try to live righteous lives balance our faith against the cowardice and moral poverty of our leadership? My heart goes out to the victims and to the good priests and nuns . It must be hell on earth for all of them.
Crimes committed on the street or in the rectory are still crimes and should be pursued by the justice system. Why not go after this system of abuse and cover up using the RICO law? The catholic bishops, cardinals, etc. who moved these criminals from parish to parish across state lines here in the US need to be held just as accountable as the cirminals themselves. When I heard of this, I pulled my kids out of any more contact with our church. We were in southwestern Kansas and priests were coming and going every six months. There was no way I was taking any chances wuth my kids.
Nothing. I am upset what is happening about the Catholic Church, but, I am still a strong supporter of the Catholic Church. Humans make the mistake and sometimes it can be detrimental. It is sad that people blame the Church and not the people. I am waiting for the day when MEDIA start an uproar with other CHURCHES, MOSQUES, TEMPLES and/or other WORSHIPPING places who has or have done something similar or worse. It would be amazing what is out there
I am not a practicing Catholic, but part of my family is, and I attend many masses/events. Bottom line, I was an abused kid and this stuff consumes the victims throughout their lives. It shapes their ability to love, to trust and to be at peace with themselves. Thus, I am a huge advocate of re-liberalizing the requirements of priests that now prevent them from marrying, and now prevent women from serving. I think that opening up the recruiting for the priesthood would both strengthen the church and provide a new resurgance in good things ,including better marriage counseling and happier ,healthier personal lives for those who serve. Thanks for hearing my views.
As a Catholic believer it hurts. It hurts that a priest in our diocese molested children I know, but he was a sick perverted man. What hurts more is that the church I love covered it up, threatened victims to be silent and tried to shield the priest. It hurts that when it did come out we were told it was an isolated incident and then we found out it was not a single isolated incident, it had been going on for a long time and the dioscean leadership had known about it.
I still have faith in God but no longer have any faith in the church and do not plan to attend church again.
As a Roman Catholic, I am greatly ashamed of my church at this time. I now feel uncomfortable going to Mass. The only way the church can survive this is to take strong action against abusing priests, both by charging them with crimes and removing them from the church. Then the priests, etc. who did nothing when they knew about incidents of sexual abuse, should also be removed or demoted to the lowest level in the church and not permitted to perform Mass ever again. Nothing less will help the church recover.
I know sexual abuse happens in other religions, too; and it has to be stopped, no matter what the religion is.
I wish we could believe the Vatican! They deny and expect the world to believe them just like Law did in Boston and other bishops then admitted they knew, did nothing etc etc.
Faith in these maco guys in Rome is totally gone- now we see celebacy's effects.
Are they supposed to teach us – I don't think so.
This is only going to get worse, denials are going to be less and less credible, the church will lose its credibility, and the whole thing will go down the drain.
Ideally, Italy should void the treaty that makes the Catholic Church a country, so that the Vatican is accountable. Second, for the sake of the church, Pope Ratzinger should step down and submit himself to police investigation. At best he will be vindicated; at worst, justice will be done. Third, the Catholic Church needs to hand over malefactors to the police. In my jurisdiction, if a clergyman knows about or suspects child abuse or child endangerment, and does not report it to the police, it is a felony.We should see bishops and priests going to prison. If we did, it would show that the Catholic Church has finally grown humility and integrity, and it would gain our respect.
The longer they stall, the worse it will get, and the more damage there will be to the church they are trying to protect. The best way to protect it is to come clean all around.
The mere fact that the RCC has overlooked and ignored this issue for so long shows that they don't think it's a really big deal. Only now, when the rest of the World has had enough of their denials do they even recognize any wrong doing. To me that show their alooftness and disregard toward those they suppose to represent and hold dear.
I was raised Cathloic, but think very little of Catholicism or the other major religions in this country. These scandals reinforce why I am a "recovery catholic". Any person who commits rape (and that is what occured in many of these cases) should be tried and put in jail. They should also be added to the pedophile/pervert list, even if they don't get convicted. The fact that these people can hide behind an institution like the Catholic church, is disgraceful!!! It is really beyond me why the police cannot hold and put on trial any of these arch-bishops who clearly covered up crimes. The POPE COVERED UP CRIMES AND HE WILL NEVER BE PUNISHED. Or, maybe he will just go to hell. If you ask me, I do not see how God could allow any of these men to go to heaven – as almost ALL of them are co-conspirators!!!!
If I were to get caugh taking a leek in the bushes, I could be added to the sexeaul pervert list in many states andc MY LIFE WOULD BE OVER. But these priests seem to be above the law – which has been the problem with the Catholic church since the beginning of time!!
The real abuse is abuse of the mind. Religion is poison, a pox on humanity and a bane to individuals. The church has been abusing children for thousands of years, and continues abusing them today by filling their minds with lies, yet nobody seems to care. The religious are robbed blind of their sense of reality at a young age, and in churches and religious schools all over the world, their innocence, too. Religion is child abuse, categorically and undeniably the worst junk on the planet.
As a practicing Catholic, I must say that I don`t agree with any of the cases that the media has been presenting. Yes, they are molesters and HUMANS. If they did something wrong according to human laws, they should pay but...
The Catholic Church is not the only one that has those type of problems and unfortunetly I don`t see the media doing a WITCH hunt in any other religious organizations that not only rape and molest their members but even drive them into killing themselves.
Please remember what Easter is about in Christianity; the spring break is not for people to go get naked in other places outside their countries.
SOLUTION TO the problem of priests who sexually abuse children is to have a Law requiring EVERY PRIEST/ ARCHBISHOP,etc. to take a yearly POLYGRAPH TEST to determine wheather they are morally corrupt or God fearing individuals. That, I believe would help eliminate the scum! This is very discusting behavior!
I was raised Catholic in the 70s, 80s, and thankfully I was not the victim of abuse. I feel like a dodged a bullet. Today I'm an atheist, and I understand that the Catholic Church is a political organization just like any other branch of religion. The clergy are political actors, and they must respond to crises in terms of political fallout.
This problem came out not because Church officials were wracked by guilt, but because victims came forward with accusations. The Church cajoled and threatened victims to stay silent for decades. Some say the Church is the spirit not the "bricks and mortar." Well, it is the people, and the institution, and the "bricks and mortar." The Vatican is fuming that it has to debase itself through public apologies. Not long ago, its threats would have assured that no victim dare come forward. I'm sure the Church misses its past. As an authoritarian regime, however, it doesn't have to capitulate to modernity. As the Vatican has shown in its recent declaration of a "smear campaign" against their leader, you can only push them so far. Never forget, for the Catholic Church, besmirching the institution and the faith is a greater crime than raping some random boys.
I keep reading about how other churches do the same thing or worse. No, they don't. I can count the number of non-Catholic churches with similar scandals on the fingers of one nose. There's no child abuse or child molestation scandal in any other mainline church at all in the world period.
What's different about the Catholic Church? Other churches recruit clergy later in life after their sexuality has developed, not while they are in pre-pubescent sexual anxiety. Other churches do psychological screening and personality tests as part of the ordination process. Other churches do police background checks and ethics training on a regular basis as a condition of remaining in active ministry. To their credit, the Catholic Church is beginning to do these things.
Women are just as good at abuse as men–ask anyone about all those female school teachers having sex with underaged boys. Married couples sometimes get involved in child molestation together. Marriage is not the cure for perversity–ask my sister whose husband turned out to have been molesting her daughters. Only appropriate testing, background screening, periodic training, and monitoring can stop this before it happens.
This takes heroic people who are willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the Church. It takes people who are willing to prefer damaging truth to pleasant lies. In other words, the Catholic Church needs an infusion of common sense and living saints.
I walked away from the Catholic Church (but not God) 40 years ago because of their hypocrisy and lies and bullying tactics. It is a shame the church is stuck in the dark ages and covers up for the atrocities committed by some clergy. When the Rapture comes, most of the Catholic clergy will be still standing at the pulpit.
What the priests did is unforgivable but trying to rubbish our pope is disingenuous of CNN.
It may be shocking for many, but the truth is that so long as we are stupid and follow the catholic church and accept Vaticans acts, this devils in priests will continue to haunt. Don't pay church tax, that is the best form of expression. Those who claim, holy act in such a dirty manner, should not be allowed to continue, this false religion which has shattered the faith of the innocent followers and the children, should be razed down immediately before it inflicts further harm.
This is a wake up call for all Catholics. Ask for accountability, ask for personal responsibility from your leaders. Don't blame the media for shining a light on this horrendous abuse, thank them for showing you what has been hiding behind the curtain. It does not matter if it happened yesterday, last week, last year or twenty years ago. The leadership covered it up and did nothing to prevent further abuses when they moved these pedophiles from parish to parish or institution to institution.
Open your eyes and think for yourselves, you would not tolerate this type of behavior in any type of organization( i.e. school, nursing home, sports program, anywhere there is a hierarchy of leadership) so why is acceptable in the Church? Send a message and defect, find a religious organization that has the scruples we thought the Catholic Church had.
Here are some facts:
1. It's illogical to believe heterosexual men who take an oath of celibacy are suddenly then turned on by little boys to the point where they abuse them.
2. Men who are celibate abuse children at a FAR less propensity than men who are not celibate.
3. Abuse data shows that Catholic priests don't abuse at a higher propensity than people in other professions who deal with children.
4. How do you punish a priest who is dying, or has been dead for years, if not decades?
If you read CNN, it's difficult to get the full facts and circumstances, but I have a hunch that they will continue to manufacture straw men and burn them down.
As a student of history and comparative religions this is no suprise. Of course they are not the only ones but the Catholic Church has a history of demented saints, corrupt pope's, and zealous priests forcing their ideology upon the unsuspecting and the inocent with dire consequinces for failure to comply
It should be kept in mind that the Church like any organization or center of power will first and formost protect that power and inluence at the expense of all other considerations. For the Church leaders to suggest that they were not aware of these abuses only goes to reinforce this point.
I am not saying that organized religions don't serve a lofty and admirable purpose nor that most of their minons are corrupt and degenerate. But not facing the fact that many are and not taking the high road of admittance, punishment, and corrective action does not serve these institutions well.
As to the assertion that the Pope probably did not even read the memo mentioned in the New York Times because the archbishop's office received from 700 to 1000 memos a year, at even 1000 memos a year that would be fewer than 3 per day. At a maximum rate of fewer than three memos per day, it would be truly hard to believe that he did not read the memo.
Thank you for asking the question. I am a practising Catholic for over 60 years...all my life. I was fortunate to have many wonderful nuns and priests of integrity 3rd grade through college. They were brilliant teachers, mentors, leaders and active in social justice issues....I was never abused by any of them. I obviously was one of the lucky ones.These good men and women valued children, youth, young adults, and humanity. My work in my life and community was born out of these great men and women and their example. I am deeply saddened, anguished, and angry that the hierarchy has responded to the sex abuse crisis by Catholic Clergy the way they have...including the recent response of Pope Benedict. The only persecution going on in the Catholic Church is going on within...from the hierarchy all the way to Rome. The Catholic Leadership is not telling the truth, spins tales, maintains secrecy and silence. Our Church leaders want the Catholics in the pew and people all over the world who are not Catholic to believe that they (the hierarchy) are being persecuted, lied about, and there is some plot to bring the Catholic Church down. The only ones demoralizing the Catholic Church are our hierarchy all the way to Rome.
Although this latest scandal upsets me deeply as a Catholic, it doesn’t surprise me. Not that I expected something like this to happen, nor do I condone behavior of this kind, from anyone, especially priests and bishops, but the Church is made up of sinful men and women, and there will always be bad things taking place within the Church, unfortunately. Has it affected my faith as a Catholic? No! Never! I’m Catholic because I believe, by virtue of the overwhelming historical evidence and the fact that Catholicism alone conforms to all of the biblical data, that Catholicism is true, and that the Catholic Church is the one and only visible, universal Church established by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Which naturally leads to my next point, and that is, this is a Catholic problem. It’s not for anyone else to judge the Church on the behavior of her members, especially her clergy, the character of whom they do not understand. We as Catholics need to tackle the issue head-on. We cannot pretend it doesn’t exist, and we need to understand this scandal from the perspective of our faith in the Lord. Before He chose his first disciples, Jesus went up the mountain to pray all night. Although He had many followers at the time, He talked to his Father in prayer about whom he should choose to be his Apostles – yet one of them turned out to be a traitor.
Since time immemorial, church doctrine has more less remained the same, the people and leaders have changed, hence sad as it is about what is happening, my faith remains firm and strong, my prayers go to our leaders for they are the light in this darkness we call life and to the families involved. That said we shouldn't tolerate these very very sad acts.
Why bother taking a vow of celibacy? God created one man (Adam) and one woman (Eve). Celibacy, Abstinence goes away from natural design. See First Timothy, Chapter 3. Only meant for those who hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church.
I think that most of the bishops and cardinals in the Catholic church should be in jail. For them to say they didn't know this was going on is a lie. The culture that they live in is one that values protecting their own at all costs.
If this was a school or a summer camp, these guys would all be thrown in the slammer. Why do we not stand up against this institution?
CNN has inadequately reported this story. It seems to me that CNN is more interested in not offending ardent Catholics than in reporting the truth. The Catholic Church will never be salt and light in this world until it repents of its unbiblical teachings and distorted "gospel."
Why doesnt the media also mention all those thousands of priests all over the world, sincerely dedicated to their work, who have given up their lives in order to serve and help those in physical and spiritual need? My faith in Christianity will remain the same.
I can say this from bitter personal experience: I was a victim of abuse in High School. I was 14 and one of the Christian Brothers took me and 3 others on a ski trip. I can't speak for the others but he got me drunk and raped me. I settled several years ago.
Heres the insidious part: As part of the settlement we were going to have to sign confidentialty agreements!. I said flat out that was a deal breaker, and I'd go to court in a heartbeat. They caved, and it has liberated me. I thought it my fault, and now can talk freely about it, and maybe help others as well. As for the church, since 1985 I have been in a church twice, both times for funerals. Best I can say is I'm a recovering catholic.
As a Catholic , I do not condone such behaviour. We are taught to love and respect every human being. These are the fundamentals I will always hold onto. God is the foundation of our faith. Priest who use their power and authority to control another human being should be dealt with severely. This I do believe is a very small % of the total priesthood. We have commited and dedicated priest whose charactors are tarnished because of the monority. I have faith in our current Pope to deal with these individuals. The media does however also play a huge role in pepetuating the situation by constantly rebroadcasting the same events over and over. Allow the church ,its leaders and victims to work through these unfortunate ordeals. My prayers are with the victims and familes. May we remain strong in the teaching of our faith as catholics.
Exposing these scandals is a step in the right direction. This is a period for the Catholics to stand by their FAITH choose what is RIGHT and DO AWAY with what is WRONG.
This is not really surprising at all. The correlation between religion and sex-offenders are much higher than for other offenses.
Religion does more harm than good, stop the madness.
People do not like the Catholic Church beacause it is tolerant and speaks out against wrongs and injustices.
Anyone around dares criticise Muslims and Islam?
Come on don't tell me that not a SINGLE religious from any other faith has committed similar things....
The pope should resign. Period. Clean house and find someone worthy of the position. Benedict is clearly not the man to trust, inspire, dictate morality or lead the church. There is nothing he can do to earn a reprieve from this sordid mess.
It is the responsibility of civil authorities to bring erring members of the public, including priests to book. The Catholic Church can not be held responsible for the irresponsible behaviour of some of her members including priests.
The victims of these crimes should hold the civil authorities responsible for not bringing the culprits to book. If there is evidence that some priests have broken the law, the victims and their families should seek redress from civil authorities because the Catholic doctrine does not promote illegality. Enough of this rubbish please.
The catholic church has been a blight on mankind so long as it has existed.
So the Pope said "I didn't know". Well I always thought that the ultimate responsibility belongs to the top official. The pope was responsible to have been told about cases of abuse. He should have insisted on being told. As much as there is a failure in this regard, it is made worse by his evasion, passing it on to an underling and then claiming persecution. Nonsense and double talk.
As a former Catholic I am not surprised at this news. Since childhood I always heard that priests took advantage of children under their care. I even heard for years that the orphanage that existed in our town were not orphans but children of priests and the nuns that lived in a convent near by.
As I grew older I realized that I love Christ and try to follow his example as much as I can but I consider the Catholic Church to be a secretive, hypocritical and false church.
I pray to God every day but I refuse to go to Church.
Like Ghandi once commented "I like Christ, but I don't care for Christians especially Catholics for they act so different from Christ"
What do the scandals mean to me as a Catholic? I can't say that these scandals have changed my faith one iota, because my faith has always come from God, not the men entrusted to run His Church. The teachings of the Church clearly forbid pedophilia and that's all that is important to me. If members of the Church follow that rule or don't follow it, I will still always be a devout Roman Catholic. The Church is my true mother and I love her.
The church is nothing more than a society of male pedophile perverts who take vows to protect each other.
I don't think that Catholics are trying to excuse this behavior (and if they are, they are wrong, since these acts must be punished appropriately, perhaps in secular courts) but are merely saying that CNN and other news networks single them out when the same is going on in other institutions, secular and sacred, at a much higher rate. EVERY institution that deals with children has the same problem.
Its time for the Pope and the rest of the leadership of the Catholic Church to liquidate the Church's assets and distribute them to the poor. In other words, start behaving like Jesus rather than the entitled elitist liars they have become.
The extent of sexual abuse of children in the Roman Church in various countries indicates that this religion is not a Christian church. A truly Christian church would call all its members, including and especially the top leadership to repent about the fact that a significant number of its leaders engaged in unbelievable immorality and tried to cover it up. Christ said (Matthew 7: 16ff.) "A good tree is recognized by its fruit." If the fruit is bad, the tree is bad. The Roman Church should wake up and admit, that its true roots are not in the Bible, that it misrepresents true Christian faith and life, and doesn't even recognize it. The Roman Church with its pope should stop interpreting the Bible by its traditions and by arbitrary doctrines of the popes and return to the plain word of the Bible for sound teaching lead by Christ's Spirit. The Roman Church should repent of its arrogance by claiming that it is the only true church and that it doesn't recognize any other Christian church as a church in the sense of the New Testament. If this repentance doesn't happen, the Roman Church will get into even bigger scandals and will continue to mislead many.
I am wondering if we are not confronted with 2000 years of cover up, cheating and abuse of every sort
I am a cradle Catholic who has not practiced for several years. I was around the most wonderful priests growing up and at one time though of becoming a nun.
However, I am extremely angry that bishops frequently moved criminals from parish to parish and protected them. How badly could the Church have needed priests that they continued to tolerate these individuals in their midst?
How the silence of some Church leaders aided and abetted criminal behavior is beyond my comprehension. AND the only way it was brought to light was through law suits. MONEY!
There are so many wonderful priests and nuns doing God's Work. It is a travesty that bishops aren't called to task for undermining the spread of the Gospel.
As a long time Catholic I will continue to attend mass but this scandal saddens me greatly. I was abused by the Grey nuns as a 6 years old child in a convent & never forgot it. I am almost 70 and everytime I read about the abuses of my church the memories keep coming back....I am sad. Gilles
Paedophilia is satanic. It is more than perversion. It is a means by which evil and possessed humans plant evil into another generation. Sometimes the seed planted bears its evil fruit – and turns the victims into abusers as they grow older. As a first step to ending it, ALL paedophiles must be separated from potential victims for life - permanent incarceration.
Because of the scandal of abuse, tens of millions of Catholics, and probably more than that, have either effectively left the church, or will leave, over the coming years. Two generations from now, ex Catholics will still be warning their grandchildren against ever setting foot in a Catholic church. Meanwhile the victims become seek compensation, and protest about the cover-up - as "enemies" of the or adversaries of the church, which has lied, protected the abusers, and harassed the victims.
The approach of both those who leave, and of the victims who fight the clergy for compensation is 'WRONG". The solution is to take back the church – whose church is it, who paid for the churches, who built the buildings, who paid for the land, who paid for the wealth, who paid for the schools?? It was the laity not the clergy. The "faithful" should not be leaving the church – they should be storming the cathedrals, throwing the clergy out of the Church, reclaiming the wealth they donated to the clergy, and compensating the victims from the wealth that is seized.
Ask the simple question – what would Jesus do? The answer is already in writing in the gospels – when Jesus encountered financial corruption – making money off religion – in the temple, he made a whip, and drove the offenders out. If he did that to people who milked religion for money, what would He do to a bunch of satanic perverts who molest children – and do it under the guise of being his agents?
Forgiveness is fine – and Christian - BUT it comes SECOND to protecting children from the predations of the wicked.
Country after country, the horror stories keep coming – Austria, Germany, South America, Ireland, the USA, Australia – sadism, perversion, organised cover-ups and protection of the wicked. The Catholic Church, in its current form, is effectively finished. We should be looking at what will replace it.
We have to now assume that all members of the Catholic clergy are guilty until proven innocent.
Make me Pope! – then the victims will be compensated, the godly and saintly priests and monks will be welcomed back, but the perpetrators of abuse and their protectors will be banished forever to a desert island where they will never again have access to a child. I would send them to freeze out their days in Antarctica, except, if I did, I would have grave fears for the safety of the penguins.
It is more than a Catholic problem - western society is in grave danger of collapsing unless we put a stop to the perversion and child abuse that is rife in our politics, our media, and our judiciaries. Perverts are easy to blackmail, which makes them easy to control – so we have seen them promoted to senior positions, to parliaments, and onto judges' benches.
Yes make me Pope – but only if you are willing to supply shiploads of millstones, and plenty of ocean going transports!
I have known of wide-spread priestly sexual abuse for nearly 20 years. A book came out in the early 1990's about a Catholic priest in Louisiana who was moved from parish to parish, where he continued to abuse boys. Bishops and the Archdiocese were quite aware of the situation, choosing to treat the matter as a "mortal sin", of which the priest could repent and perform penance. I also knew a Dominican priest who told me, also in the early 1990's, that the Western Dominican Province was nearly bankrupted from settlements paid to victims of sexual abuse.
I stopped attending the Catholic Church at that time because the idea that a pedophilic sex offender might be offering the Sacraments to me made me sick. I have since converted to Judaism. Just this last year, the Northwest Jesuit Province has declared bankruptcy so they won't have to pay restitution to thousands of abuse victims.
The church members, sitting in pews and throwing money in the collection basket, are a bunch of suckers who continue to enable criminal behavior in their clergy. What a scam!
Why didn't you ask the previous comment to moderate the statement, that 'religion does more harm than good, stop the madness'. The Roman Church misrepresents true faith big time and causes unbelievers to slander the faith. I stand to what I wrote, because I know it is true what Christ said: "The truth will set you free".
Even I am not a Catholic, but I want to tell them my message what I think about the Vatican.
when a religion and it theology go away from the original theology and human made the theology by their own then all these criminal activity happen. because these people stay away from the message of the true God, now they have only choice 'become a criminal organization what is the Vatican today". Satan took over the control of the Vatican and now Satan run the Vatican. Vatican would not take any people to the heaven. they are taking the people to the hell for sure. it is easy to prove that Bible is not totally word of God (God's words had be distorted. and Bible is enough to show that Jesus Christ never claim that he is a God. all of these Vatican theology is man made. and base on it no one will go to the heaven. hell will be the permanent place who will follow Vatican. make a distance from the God's original message, now Vatican become a criminal organization and become a safe heaven for the criminal. and they are exercising how to protect the criminal. they are doing it in organized way. Vatican has nothing to offer to guide people spritually.
Author: BIBLE, ISLAM AND THE MEDIA (GodMercy4All.com).
I am Catholic. But, for the life of me, why do these cases even go to the church hierarchy. They should be turned over to State's Attorneys offices. And the priests should be tried like any other criminal. Until that happens, there is no justice for the victims.
Priests certainly should be held to a higher standard, however, they will never achieve perfection in this life. I haven't seen any estimates of the incidence of pedophilia among priests versus the overall population, but I would be surprised if it is higher among priests. In any case, the fact that priests are not allowed to marry probably attracts some pedophiles to that ministry. The Catholic Church could reduce the incidence of pedophilia among its priests by allowing marriage (to the opposite sex, of course) and would greatly enhance its reputation by doing so.
It's not the Church's fault. At ALL!. It's my fault. And your fault. And all people who continue to sit back since the birth of organized religion and are literally asleep and in a coma when it comes to the darkness of religion. Now, do not think i am against the idea of a Creator. I am not. Moses was never given a religion on Mount Sinai. Jesus never preached a religion. Nor did the prophet Muhammad. They revealed tools to connect to the Divine Creator for each individual of their respective races. Religion is man made. And until you, me, and we the people rise up and shut it down, the darkness will continue. The fruit reflects the seed. The seed of the Church is evil and darkness. But its our fault. The essence of Christianity, Torah and the Koran is Love Thy Neighbor. Its up to us. Not the religious authority. They are but a reflection of us.
i strongly think time has come for the clergy of the catholic church to ask why these scandals in our church and not be ready to apologize and deny issues. i am afraid more may still hit headlines in future. let genuine questions be asked about the appropriateness of celibacy in our 21st century. i am an african catholic priest and l love the church passionately and l know that celibacy is the key to these scandals. is the church afraid to change a system that is no longer creating the desired impact. why hold onto it tenaciously. are the priests living celibate today? must we continue to allow this pretence to go on. we must control the wind that is blowing now or it will control us. i am only afraid that when the light beams on africa so much will be revealed to the chargrin of our dear faithful.
If the Pope is really 'truly sorry,' then the Vatican should pass all their files on cases reported to them to the national police forces around the world. And they should willingly co-operate in further investigations. Crimes have been commited and superiors who covered up these crimes should also be investigated for aiding and abetting. Nothing less will be required if the Catholic Church is to regain any credibility with the faithfull and the world community at large.
As painful as it still is for the victims, forgiveness is the best healer of all. The church has ask for forgiveness with a constricted heart, let us all join in prayer that peace will come back to those who suffer the consequences of a stupid obligation to the priests to remain single !
Let's get this straight. CNN & TIME have misrepresented the facts of cases reported. I just wonder how much they get right about any other news items they report. In thinking about it, watching CNN we get more opinion than facts. CNN & TIME have an agenda in report the Church's crisis in such a uneducated manner. GOOD BYE CNN, your days will end, but the Church will survive.
I am really proud of be Catholic. This is the true Church that was founded by Christ. Don't forget that He died because a little group that want to maintain their power (at that time) don't like the True tha He gave us. Right now, a little group is trying to damage Catholic Church because it will never sell the Truth and the values instead of money or instead of votes. If there are people doing that is because there are a lot of holy priests and saints that belongs to Catholic Church and work very well around the world.
I've been following Bible prophecy for 30 years now and it's amazing to see how it's being fulfilled. Revelation clearly says that all false religion will be completely destroyed before the end of this system, and before Jehovah God ushers in his New System by means of his Kingdom by Christ Jesus. It seems that so many desire to defend the Catholic church for their grave wrongs, but how cound a person stay with an organization that covers up such wrongs and even promotes so many wrong teachings that are not in the Bible, such as: the Trinity doctrine, hellfire, forbidding to marry, being peddlers of the word of God, and the list goes on. Jesus said in the book of John "by their fruits you will recognize them", speaking of the true and false religions. If you are a Republican and you found out that a significant number of your senators were molesting children, I don't think you would remain a Republican for long. You would likely reason; "there must be something fundamentally wrong with this organization for such a scandal to occur, and even be confirmed".
According to the Bible, all false religion will be destroyed soon, it's just amazing to see how God works things out; expose their hypocrisy and they destroy themselves! It's exciting to see this playing out. Lastly, in spite of my happiness to see the exposure of this false religious entity, I regret that so many children were molested by these disgusting unrepentant men. As one passage says, "the defect is their own", speaking of individuals in the crooked and twisted system.
For all those who honestly wish to learn the Truth of the Bible and see how how True faith is lived, please listen to Jehovah's Witnesses next time they call at your door. Individuals in that organization are not perfect either, but the scriptural methods of rooting out such wicked acts in their organization is commendable. When I attend their church and speak with my friends, many of whom are JW's I am amazed at how closely they strive to abide by Bible standards. They are often criticized for their strong stand, but it's now obvious that such a high standard has proven to keep their organizaion clean overall. I salute them for succeeding in being true followers of Christ as an organization!!
as a catholic i find abuse unacceptable as does the church we have to accept that people not the church have done evils against others and that in the light of history we are all subject to the review of history but even history cannot be changed but the futere is what we look forward to and no two wrongs do not make a right BUT those with out sin cast the first stone
This comes to me as no surprise. For years now, the Catholic Church has acted not as a catalyst of change, but, as an oppressive barrier to innovation. The Catholic church remains a conflicted and convoluted mess of doctrine and dogma that no longer works, no longer serves the Church,and no longer supports the community.
Nothing about the Church makes sense – yet the Church will defer these contradictions to "faith" as the guiding principal and ultimately, to what everything about their organization comes down to.
As a Gay American Male, I feel nothing but hatred for the Church because of their position on me as a child of God, whom was, by their own teaching "made in the likeness and image of God." Yet, I am hated, shunned, ridiculed, tortured, castigated, humiliated and denied communion for simply being what I was made.
As far as I am concerned, the Catholic Church need to pay a heavy price for the horrible transgressions and crimes not just to innocent children at the hands of their depraved priests, but, also, to the many innocent people whom they have hurt so deeply in the "name of Jesus."
The Christian faith is marked by a changed life. Catholics do not have a changed life as evidenced by this despicable scandal. Roman Catholics are NOT promised heaven but purgatory which doesn't exist in the Bible.
The Bible promises heaven to all that believe on Jesus. Even the thief on the cross was promised paradise that very day. Not so with a Catholic. He has to go to purgatory to have some remaining sins burned away. Jesus forgives totally and completely negating any need for Purgatory. Jesus death on the cross was a one time payment for your sin. All you have to do is believe. The Catholic heiarchy reject that. The Catholic church is a NOT Christian in any way. It is a cruel political organization that seeks to control the minds of men. Simply believe on Jesus and be saved for eternity! You don't need a priest to come to Christ.
I think religion is the most evil force on earth, responsible for more death, destruction and misery over the course of humankind than anything else. As a recovering catholic I sincerely hope this is the beginning of the end of the catholic church.
The Church has protected these criminal far too long. It has damaged the very fabric of the Church and now even the Pope is on the hot seat. In my view, he must attack this problem agressively and NOW. Men are sexual animals. God made them that way so they would reproduce. It is against nature to expect a man to remain celibate. I believe changing this law would alleviate a lot of the problem.
this is terrible, i think that the governments of the world should
unite to get rid of organized religion, they are a threat to humanity.
would they let any other organization of the planet do this?
The Catholic Church has been a nexus of evil for centuries, from the time of the Inquisition torturing and burning supposed "heretics" and "witches." In recent times it has become nothing more or less than a worldwide conspiracy of sexual perverts. Evil, evil, evil, hiding under the guise of goodness and salvation. Satan's finest trick.
Simon, Simon! Satan, you must know, has got his wish to sift you all like wheat; but I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail.
I admit my situation may seem odd, as I am not currently a Catholic, but rather am in the process of becoming a Catholic (I will be confirmed in only a few days). I check the news multiple times a day to read of any new developments of the scandal, as I have no wish to ignore the problems of the Church I will soon be entering. The question I suppose remains as to why I would continue the process of becoming a Catholic in the height of the publication of scandal–and this is a difficult one to answer. It certainly could be said, as many do, that all institutions, both religious and secular, have the same problems of abuse. Yet I think the public outrage is reflective of something I feel myself, that the Catholic Church is indeed special, that it should be held to a higher standard.
I love the Church, I love it enough to hope for and work toward its continual reformation. I fell deeply sorry for those who have been hurt. Yet I cannot escape the depravity of their abusers by separating myself from the Church. Wherever people are, there also will depravity be. The Church has never claimed that itself was perfect, but only that it pointed to someone else who is perfect. I have more excitement for my upcoming confirmation in the Catholic Church than I have ever felt before.
Allow Catholics priest to be married and live life like others. This problem of abuse will continue to occure if this is not done. These priests are human beings and have feelings too. 'sexual'. Celibasy idea is nonsence.
the catholic church is not alone in child abuse I believe that 90 percent of men that are involved with the church as pastors or priests (catholic or protestant ) go into a religious career as a way to disquise there true nature of homosexuality and/or child abusers
If the comments posted are anything to go by, then there seems to be a re-surfacing of bigotry when it comes to any opportunity to smear the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church. Perhaps if it weren't in fact a bulwark of moral teaching this may not be the case. Despite the reported slew of "abuse" cases being long past and not of currency, the dissenting voices seem to be no different than those you hear of other lobby issues of popular interest eg. economic summits, gay rights. It made me wonder if the same people who claim to be liberal types are being vocal for its own sake. Faith on the other hand is not about popular currency, although what it teaches us helps us deal with the failures, trials and disappointments that come with a struggle to be adhere to those teachings. Most Catholics or any other adherent to any faith, as believers will not waver on the point of popular criticism. There are avenues of justice within these institutions and even when these fail, the bulk of the assembly of believers have more to rely on, which is God's grace. It is false to represent the whole Church as failed on the basis of several faults: isn't generalisation discrimination? The media has a role to inform in a balanced way, despite some readers on both sides getting carried away. That's expected. As a Catholic who finds great meaning in the apostolic truth that has been faithfully kept by the Church, I will not be found among those that throw stones in their own glass house. The recent pontificates have proven that the Papacy is even more relevant than before, more pastoral, and more just. But aside from being an institution, the Papacy represents an essential Christian truth embedded in the gospel, and in the promise of Jesus Christ, that its leadership is a commission from God, and will prevail against attacks from the Adversary. Those words are being proved now. The faith has survived heresy, political presecution and many scandals from simony (as old as the New Testament!), and continues to have a purpose in the world that "rejects" its voice. Christians believe in trial and persecution as the very sign of contradiction that validates its mission. Most Christians who believe in living out their faith, wouldn't so much throw a stone, as they would in stand in its way. I applaud CNN (and some of the leading news agencies) for their editorial balance in their approach to this matter. Thanks, Anderson & team. In your work, yes, you all remain in our prayer. God bless.
I was raised Roman Catholic, and I have to say that I disavowed the entire religion after I had heard about the child abuse cover-ups from about five years ago. The fact that this has come up again in several other countries and that the pattern of cover-ups is the same completely validates my decision. The Catholic Church, like any other religious institution, is a power structure above all else. They will do anything that they have to to keep that power. I'm unsure if there is a God in the world, but if there is, I am certain that these people know nothing about Him.
Speaking selfishly, I hope that this completely destroys the church. If people want to be religious, I advise them to make it a personal experience between them and their God. You don't need these phonies in ornate robes with crosses of gold to tell you how to talk to God. They only want two things from you: 1) your money and 2) the power you give them by being a member of their congregation.
What's really sick about this whole business is that I find myself thinking the people who did the molesting are not the worst people here. The worst people to me are the absolute monsters who made a cold, calculating decision to keep shuffling these predators around to different churches so they could continue to exploit people who trusted them. This makes me want to go to hell so I can watch these people burn.
I can't stress this enough: abandon the Catholic church, the strength you're looking for is within yourself.
The only thing stop that, let them get married,this is tottaly against the nature, they eat what every one is eating so they have to take it out too is very simple thing .I agree every relegion have some porblem but living without married life is make more often to do this kind of sin.in last they are also from us too.
-Why is it that the media ALWAYS says that the 'victims' are abused, sexually assaulted, raped, forced, etc ad nauseum when the real truth is that 99% of the complainants willingly went along with it. You will never convince me, a guy, that all these people were violently raped and said nothing about it at the time. Not just priests, but sex offences in general. Men are biologically programmed to seduce but actual forcing or rape is proportionately very rare. It is 'fashionable' to be a victim these days, and the inevitable lawsuit always follows because proof is not needed to convict in court for a sex offence. I feel sorry for all those good and selfless priests out there who are smeared with this bullcrap (and I am Protestant). Sex offences against men is the modern day witch hunt in which the finger is pointed and a man's life is destroyed without proof. Because women have political power. Of course this truth will never reach the light of day on CNN. – Wayne
Revealing the sins of the Church of the Torture Chambers is old news. They have been corrupt since that cult was founded by Constantine. How can a supposedly infallible church cover up crimes and somehow nobody knows?
No reform is possible as it is a false faith system that does not save. I am proud to have left it, but somewhat ashamed to admit I was duped for many years by it.
The sad news is not only that innocent children are betrayed and abused but the facts that people still cant see the truth and repent. They still cling on to their pride and depends on man to solve their problem. Suggestion like , ' the church must be more vigilent' only revealed the hopelessness in man.
If one cares to look at all the religions and practices, one would noticed that there is always some form of abuse by the heads of these religious institutions. We cant ddepend on man for man is a fallen creature and need help from above. The Pope, Mary, Mohammad, Mullahs, Dalai Lama and all the priests and monks cannot help us as they are just like us – fallen beings.
Following Jesus is the only true Way,and Truth and LIving, who can prevent all these evils in this world.
In 2003 I reported to the Archdiocese of Detroit my personal experiences of being molested by a Catholic Priest when I was a student at Orchard Lake Saint Mary's Boys Preparatory School in Orchard Lake Michigan. All I wanted was an apology given that the priest pursued me after I left the school and stalked me after I went home. The Archdiocese not only refused to apologize, they threw up a barrier using their lawyer to speak about the allegation and refused to do anything to accept any responsibility for what happened. I know that I am not the only student in this all male high school that was abused and I am sure that it went on for years.
This recent allegation is merely a symptom of the real issue, and that is the Catholic Church using its power to protect the pedophile and allowed preists to remain in the parish, the school and community to repeat the abuses.
If the Catholic Church is willing to take responsibility for the lives their priests have ruined, the faith that they have taken, The Pope needs to be resonsible and offer his personal apology for the sin of child molestation and that these priests cannot be allowed to continue to hurt one more child.
Since when accusations automatically mean guiltyness without trials?
In what world does this hapen?
We had recent cases of fake paedophilia accusations in France and it had dramatic consequences....!
Don't you find curious such a series of alleged sex scandal surfacing, after 30 or 40 years, from different countries in the world at the same moment?
On the other hand it is obvious that catholic moral teachings, and specially Benoit XVI, are disturbing big and wealthy organisations(show-business, fashion, big part of pharmaceutical industry and medicine , and sex industry...).
It is well known that big médias have strong links with big business, advertising sponsors...
As a christian catholic i know that some priests and bishops ,like every christians, can make bad and wrong things and this is an old story. Nothing new there but some,many, did very great things which are not reported.
As a catholic who knows very well the church, many movements seminaries and congregations, and as a doctor i am very suspicious about the current mediatic brouhaha and think that the catholic church should fight back .
No, my faith isnt affected by this...how could it be. These revelations dont challenge Jesus Christ as the Word of God made flesh, or the fullness of the Gospel including his founding of a holy and apostolic church under the primacy of Peter and his successors.
I do wish the news organizations would start holding the police, DAs, and therapists up to the same scrutiny as they do the bishops. Bishops and cardinals are not trained in law enforcement, criminal interrogations, or sex therapy...it seems they sadly trusted other groups in society to assure them these people were safe to go into circulation.
Dont get me wrong...many of these bishops should be held to account. chief among them rembert weakland in milwaukee. i wish you all would hold him to account.
The barrage of attacks on the pope is very upsetting to me as a catholic. He should be treated with a lot more respect than he gets. there still remains no evidence that he did anything remotely wrong in these cases. he cant be held accountable for failures of priests in various countries around the world.
I don't understand – why a priest pedophile is(was) not punished in the same way with any other pedophiles ?
Second question – Can the people who still find excuses for the pedophile priests, think for a second that it could happen to them or to their children ?
To kill the innocence of a child in this way is one of the most terrible crimes.
I wish all the good of this world for those who suffered and still do because of those criminals.
Every church "preachs" a doctrine of good morals and responsibility, thus far the Vatican and its institutions have accomplished neither. What I find most alarming about this whole event is that no-one is voicing there support FOR the vatican and the Catholic Church.
Its members even seem to be filled with anger and disgust, and rightfully so. The Catholic church is on the back foot and no-one is there to help her or willing to help her.
Not one government member or country has expressed there issues. but I was be safe to assume that they are also disgusted and angry with the continuing revelations of abuse.
I often wonder now if there is STILL children going through this abuse at the hands of bishops, who are to afraid to talk to someone. Its a worrying time for ALL religions not just the RCC.
We all believe in positive thinking don't we? Then every negative news has a positive side to it. One to create an awareness and the other to find a solution right? Personally I always knew this sex scandal exists in all religious orders whether Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims etc. depending on the media being informed.
The solution for this crisis, I would like to suggest is practising what you preach. If you cannot do it, then find a support group to help you to change. For me the change took place with BSF http://www.bsfinternational.org which is very effective for anyone who wishes to change irrespective of which religion you belong. Check it out! Nothing to lose as it is free too!
And to be clearer i am accusing some secular/ libertarian associations linked with big medias(common interests) to target the catholic church by emphasizing some real ancient cases in order to create a momentum.
no longer a catholic and al.
I would say that i am very used to think by myself as a philosopher and medical doctor who spent about 4 years in catholic seminaries.
Some atheists aren't thinking by themselves and go on repeating rough statements....
BTW i would be interested to see true and real debates about this or linked issues on CNN...
Those who speak the most of tolerance are refusing tough debates on arguments in many cases .
Comment to Kenneth:
Don't worry kenneth the money you give to the Catholic Church isn't going to a pimp or a traffiker. I don't know if you noticed but It's going to the victims of abuse. Laudable, I would say. No other institutions have followed suite that I am aware of.
The obvious problem within the Catholic Church won't be successfully resolved when 'getting rich" seems to be the goal of real and/or imagined bad behavioral. No money just prison. Unless or until the statute of limitation against sexual criminals is extended to covers all public as well as private institutions then they media 'lynching mentality" against the Catholic Church just supports the idea that it is rooted in trying to silence the church by bankrupting it. When New York refused to act against their public institutions the same as private ones; for fear of bankrupting the public schools system it has the appearance that its all about money. Wait until the lawyers win big dollars against the Boy Scouts we will witness an avalanche of "victims" seeking financial gain, support by greedy lawyers "seeking justice – as a 'new revenue stream!
I was upset by the revelations that were first released from Boston, and was angered by the comments made at that time. The attitude then was a reflection of many of the current listed comments, that anger toward the Catholic Church is unfair and misdirected. The later horror stories from San Diego, and then several other areas of the U.S. only added to my anger.
In my opinion, the authority given to the role of a priest cannot help but affect a person. Many older priests seem to feel that their role to advise and preach, and their authority to act in the tradition of the disciples, gives them the right to tell people how to live and behave, which it should not.
They are given power by lay people because of the perception of their role, in the same way as physicians are given power. Abuses of such power have been seen in the medical community as well (see Delaware). Persons with power who use it to abuse children are the darkest form of evil, and should be punished.
Most infuriating, some bishops and priests seemed to think that the Vatican's status as a sovereign entity, and the enormous power of the Church, placed all clergy above the civil laws of their country. These zealots felt that evildoers should be "punished" by the Church, within the Church system. This arrogance is why I am leaving.
The arguments that "this also happens in other religions and communities" and "this is Catholic bashing" are nonsense. Its an effort to defend this evil, and an exercise in denial. These terrible events are a crime, a tragedy, and a shame, and are inexcusable. A thousand years of arrogance created this nightmare.
Remember shame? I do, but I'm old now. Shame has gone away with all other outdated technology and ideas.
I left the catholic faith a long time ago-not because of this scandel but because all of thier doctrines are garbage. The scandel does not surprise me though. They teach the opposite of what God's word says, therefore their god is satan. I am very much a Christian, but I will not step foot into a catholic church for any event.
I don't understand – why a pedophile priest is(was) not punished in the same way with any other pedophiles ?
Second question – Can the people who still find excuses for the pedophile priests, think for a second that it could happen to them or to their children ?
To kill the innocence of a child in this way is one of the most terrible crimes.
I wish all the good of this world for those who suffered and still do because of those criminals.
I am Catholic, my husband is agnostic.
My husband has always said that our children should not attend church because of the corruption there. I have always argued that he was being overly cynical. However, these scandals do make me more cautious.
My belief in God has not changed, but my reliance on the Church has weakened, partially due to fear of secret corruption, and, frankly, partially due to boredom. I was always bored and once felt obliged to go. Now I happily sleep through mass.
This is sad to see happen, So many people hurt. I've been hurt by the church also, to the point of not going anymore.I consider myself
' a Christen in exile", with no place to go.
Maybe some good will happen because of the abuse.
I hope so. we need a place to be.
Sicko, I say. Don't believe anything the church says anymore. I think there are only 3 kinds of priests. Gay, peodophile and womanizer. Was a first class Catholic as a child but as I matured I could see through these people and it didn't take me long. I had four daughters and I tell them not to let their boys be alter boys or better still stay away from the church.
It's time for Joseph Ratzinger, to resign. No way in hell did a priest get reassigned under his leadership and he did not know about it! Now it a case of through a less important one under the bus and see if it satisfied the mob! Cover up again.No way in hell. Lets get real. This has been going on long before 2000. I was in Catholic Schools in the 1950's and it was going on. Then it was excommunication if you told about it! LOL
The only one who tried to clean up this mess was The People's Pope, John XXIII. God Bless him, he tried.
All I can say is the pope is infallible, give me a break!
If an institution vests absolute authority in its hierarchy, as does the Catholic Church, doesn't it follow that that heirarchy must then bear absolute responsibility when things go drastically wrong. It seems as if the leaders of the church want all of the authority and then deny all responsibility. What message was sent to a priest who was tempted to take advantage of vulnerable children in his care when he saw other offenders sent for therapy and then assigned to a new parish? For years the church was, by its actions, saying that these offenses are not very serious. If, instead, earlier offenders were dealt with severly, wouldn't that have discouraged future offenses. It's obvious that church leaders considered avoiding scandal more important than protecting children. For that they should bear full responsibility and act accordingly.
Although I denounce the abuse from some priests. I will continue to love and respect the Pope and the Catholic Church as the true church of Christ. I will contine to pray for the victims and for other catholic who have fallen away from the church because of these scandels. I also pray that we will continue to respect the role of Priests in the community.
Why is it that when i attend church at a Roman Catholic church there are no African Americans in attendance? i notice this is true for alot of Christian Churches? (lol) what a joke! its 2010 am I supposed to believe that I am the first one who has thought of this? (lots of laughter)
Poofter Bastards ! Close down these evil worldwide institutions called "Christian churches" and stop all their tax free perks and benefits on their salaries, property taxes etc.
Throw the Pope into the gallows and may he burn in hell !
Poor innocent children. Did their Jesus really mean "suffer little children to come unto me" and when the children came they suffered by these poofters who claim to represent Jesus. Shame ! Shame! Shame! to all the worldwide authorities who commit a bigger crime by doing NOTHING and saying NOTHING proving that when good men do nothing, bad men flourish !
To the person who said priests "used the Catholic Church as a shield to protect their Identity".....
No. That's not quite right.
The Church was as much an enabler of the behaviour as the priests were perpetrators. The systematic abuse suffered by children in Ireland was done so in the name of the Catholic Church and the organisation then wielded its power to keep the offenders in the system and away from prosecution. The victims have suffered enough!
If you have a conscience, countmeout.ie
I think that the prists must be put in jail, incluiding those who maintain in secret that athrocity, an apoloy is not enough, the prists as it is going is only a business, they don care nothing, only the power and the richness they could have, History say that and in our days too.
Did you know that the Bible COMMANDS that aspiring church leaders be married men that have proved that they can successfully deal with a wife and kids before being entitled to lead a larger number of people? (1 Ti 3:1-5). There is a rare exception, though, applicable only to those very few to whom the Lord has given a gift which allows them to keep their sexual drive turned off (1 Co 7:9). There is a joyous side to this loathsome tragedy. At long last the age-old veil has been removed from many eyes.
People often hold spiritual leaders to a higher moral standard and because of this, it's all the more shocking when scandals of this scale come to the surface. I however have never held spiritual leaders to a higher moral standard. Quite the opposite actually. I now feel that the morals of Judaism, Islam and Christianity are inferior to the values of modern society. Laws are written to reflect the values of society and for that, I believe our bill of rights are morally superior to the ten commandments. Biblical laws only protect God, men and their property. Our laws protect the inalienable rights of all people and I believe its our responsibility to exercise the rule of law regardless of who's reputation is at stake. For centuries they demanded our obedience, telling us that we will all answer to their rule of law someday. In the meantime, they'll have to answer to ours.
It is these guys turn and the next bunch is in the making. It is not only the catholics. It is all the religions and they do great cause they teach people to believe in something out side of yourself. Believe in so and so and you will go to heaven or something along those lines With that crack of crap they have been getting away since Columbus went to Puerto Rico and the priests showed the indians mirrors and matches and told them that "GOD" had sent them and sold them the same line. Then it was those guys turn.
Religion is a weapon of mass mental destruction. All of them. At the core there are those guys and gals that use religion to do their thing and most of them laugh. The news always make us aware but what about the ones that do not get caught. Where is GOD bro?????????
I know but i am not telling you. Better luck next life.The Hawk.
Incidents of child abuse by Catholic priests are world-wide and have been surfacing for at least the last two decades. I am reasonably satisfied that the church hierarchy have been involved in a systematic cover up and the current Pope is prima facie implicated. Although the church denies the accusations perhaps the only way to get to the truth of the matter is have a world wide criminal investigation into the church to determine the scale of the abuse and ferret out those who need to be prosecuted.
Sinead O'connor is hardly a spokesperson for the Catholic Church and I don't know why she is being interviewed this evening. It is very unfortunate that more sexual abuse cases are arising is various countries. Some of these cases are 20, 30 and more years old. I imagine some of these poor souls kept things a secret for many years. Also, many years ago the common theory was that sexual abusers could be rehabilitated. The abusers were talked with and if they said they would stop abusing, they went on their merry way. Some of these stories are not true and are made up by people looking for attention. Whatever the case, the news media love to find fault with the Catholic Church and are always looking to make stories even more sensational than they are. People who were abused should have gone to the police themselves = and I imagine many did. That is still no excuse for priests abusing or doing any sort of cover up Perhaps CNN would be of more help if their news people and employees said a few prayers for an end to all of the world problems instead of making a bigger story out of everything. Focus on the positive for once and then the "crazy people" of the world won't get any bad ideas from watching CNN. Thank you/
I don't believe in celibacy – i think had they been allowed to marry these problems could have been avoided. It's just a thought.
I am however in no way condoning the abuse that has occurred. The only thing to do is for them to own up to whatever's happened and let them be held accountable. They can't expect to be above the law – especially not when they're representing such a large faith.
Religion and Politics. They both seem to screw you.
Not a Catholic.
Do not confuse CHURCH with GOSPEL (or Credo, Dogma).
Church is an organization run by humans. Gospel is the backbone of religion and faith.
I do not have faith in my church, but I have faith in the Gospel that it proclaims. I have faith in the gospel of Jesuschrist, and it does not matter if my church leaders do something wrong. My faith will not tremble because it is based on the GOSPEL, not on my LEADERS.
It is time for the church to consider the possibility to allow certain priest to be married to avoid the disastrous consequences of extreme holding of their bodies of natural functions and having negative consequences for the church of Jesus as the head of the church.
It is time to move forward Catholic Church before is too late! We the believers of Jesus and his Church do not want to see negative things happening because the Church not recognizing of the deep problem and prefer to concentrate in the symptoms.
The symptom is how to manage damage control. The deep problem is that even the ones that give all their life to the Church have normal needs of sexual relationships within a marriage and we believe the denial of this causes sexual dysfunctional behaviour.
My view has not changed.
I always thought they were doing the devils work dressed as priests.
As humans we are bound to make mistakes. Priests have not fallen straight from heaven they haven been born and nurtured in families. Hence it does not mean that we should give up our 2000 year old faith just because some weak men made some terrible mistakes. No, these acts needs to be certainly condoned but we cant give up a mighty and life giving and saving religion established by Christ Jesus Himself. We believe in God and consecrated men are the indirect link to reach God. Let us pray to strengthen the Church and all its ministers to be faithful to the bride (The Church). We need to pray hard for them.
Considering the Roman Catholic Church's rabid hatred of Freemasons, doesn't it make you wonder why these sick, criminal, depraved priests names are in the paper a lot more often than Freemason's (which we almost never see) ?
This is an extremely embarrassing scandal for Catholics and even more disturbing how wide spread it is across the world. What I find really surprising though is that NO ONE is asking why. Is there something in the Catholic faith itself that is leading to this? No, it clearly stems from the forced repressed sexuality of the priesthood's mandatory celibacy policy. The Catholic church needs to wake up and make some significant changes to remain relevant. The first step is allowing priests to partake in both the sacraments of marriage and ordination.
this is the time for the people to use their own brain and to seek the truth. Christian are blindly following their religious leader. this is the time to stop to blindly follow their priest. Jesus Christ is not a God. priest made those theology. Bible is not totally words of God. it has mistake and contradiction. claiming that Bible is word to word from God are making God small ( Vatican want to say that Bible is the word of God and it has the mistake and contradiction. it mean that Christian God is a crazy God and he offen make a mistake and contradict himself. hey Christian! do you want to worship a God who is less then the human being and offen make a mistake and contradrict himself? what Vatican saying about your God. this is it. your God is less then you. he make mistake and contradiction himself. the priest are the child sex abuse at night and they are the angel at the day time. and at the evening they depend for their religion by spreading the falsehood against Islam. there is no mistake and contradiction in the Koran. Mohammed is a true prophet and Koran is the word of God. remember that Christian will never go to the heaven. they deny God. and they worship Jesus Christ who is a prophet of God. severe punishment is waiting for them.
Anwar Hawk, MD
Author: BIBLE, ISLAM AND THE MEDIA (GodMercy4All.com)
Bible is enough to prove that Jesus Christ never claim that he was a God. Vatican made those story. Matthew (Chapter 19: 16-17) 16. now behold, one came and said to him, "good teacher, what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life?
17. so he (Jesus) said to him, " why do you call me good? no one is good but one . that is God. but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. [what is this mean. Jesus is not a god. and only those will go to the heaven who follow the God command. does the Vatican follow the God command? off-course not. what does it mean. they will go to the hell for sure).
Totally agree with Mary M. Was born a catholic but no more; went to catholic nursery/primary and high school hence had so much respect and admiration for the priest and sisterhood. These people are mortals and not immortal beings hence have blood and hormones running through their entire being. I have in the inner confines of my room shed tears form all I have learnt watching CNN. I keep saying to myself, it is easier for the western world to talk about sexuality and reproductive health openly thus these mind numbing abuses are easy to bring to the open. What of Africa and even Asia where these topics are not discussed what has happened or is still happening. I ask myself why has the church not deemed it necessary to disrobe priest who have contravened their celibacy vow in whatever fashion? Why give a second chance all in the name of it might not happen again. Secondary virginity is very difficult to attain. I am appealing to the church and other churches to conduct a review on this issue so as to nib in the bud congregations who are not strong losing faith in the ultimate goal of Christianity all because of acts of mortal men. Anonymous phones lines or mail drop off boxes can be set up to get complaints in case people do not want to be identified as victims of sexual abuse.
The Catholic Church has done more damage to more people around the world than all the terrorists put together and the worst thing is they say they are doing it all for "God".
It is the Roman Catholic's doctrine of celibacy that caused all this. I don't believe the pope does not know about this, because he was once a priest himself.
The Bible clearly condemns in 1 Timothy 4:2-2 about their celibacy teaching:
Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
Its really embarrassing even as a christian that such things could be done in the church, it was the major difference which is lost now , now people will take us as a sex preachers ..dont know what to say but its highly urged to give as big punishment to such people for the issue so other people can take it as example...
A forgivable act which should be rectified. I can't believe as a catholic how we can exaggerate things rather than contain it in the name of god. It happens in the modern world where everybody is living in an open atmosphere where our priests and nuns are also a part of society. It is not an approval of mistakes happened. I can suffer with graciousness all mistakes happened to me in my life in the name of god.
This stuff happens in other religions too, and in more ways. Look at Jimmy Swaggart, and people still follow him, and he is making all this super duper amount of $$. Now, let's talk about the priests and nuns that go where no one would dare, isolated places where starvation, disease, war and death are present. Let's talk about Arnulfo Romero in El Salvador. The good the Catholic Church faith does for the world can not be BLINDED by a couple of sinners, it's about the teaching and the faith. Let's look at the bigger picture here.
Folks... Another tragedy in all this is how the media refuses to cover a basic fact. There is very little in any one's current memory or in recorded history of a similar phenomena in the Islamic religion. Search as you like for an Imam who sexually molested a child, engaged in homosexual behavior, or preformed sexual acts outside of a marriage context. Search as you may, you won't find such cases. Of course Muslims have sins like Christians, but what a telling fact. I think it says something about the way the Christian faith is approached in the West. Good day!
I am not a christian,but it seems to me that the main reson for the ongoing sexual abuse in church, is the facts that priests and nuns do not marry. Sex is a natural primordial instinct that can not be supressed forever, it has to find outlet in the form of rightfull marriage.
I am a cradle Catholic, I believe we should be more involved in driving change in the church instead of waiting around for someone else to do something. We could start by talking about this things openly and supporting the victims. We all knew bad things were happening, if we don't like things we tend to stay away and that is how things have gotten to the point they are. We parishinors also hold some responsibility for the behavior of our church. We should let the Pope and the victims know that we want the guilty people out of the church. I suggest holding worldwide day of no church on one Sunday. Lets leave the church empty for one sunday all at once, let our voices talk to the world and the church. We do not approve the cover ups, we want change, not just settle the cases with money and bussness as usual.
Catholics lets take a stand not just take sides, lets save our church
I feel that religon in general has to be faded out, its purpose has been long gone. We as humans have evolved enough that we don't need silly people in customes to tell us how to live our lives. The roman catholic church has a long history of human abuse, poltical meadlers, sick and pathetic men who dress up and abuse children. I don't believe in god, jesus, moises, ala. I believe in the power of human unity, how, if we can look past color, creed and religion, we can grow and improve our global way of life. Just by selling off and placing in museums all of the secret and valuable items the vactican has, we can solve human hunger and bring dignity to people who never had it because of economic issues. After all is that what religion should do?If these gods are so perfect and just, then why are so many people suffering and dying, Thing about it when you see the pope walk with his red Prada pumps and pointy hat.
As an ex catholic who has absolutely no qualms whatsoever about leaving it behind. I think its time for the catholic church to relinquish itself to history and disappear. It is no good for nobody other than providing a false sense of "salvation" and an unsubstantiated unprovable heavenly life afterward which if you look closely would resemble an eternal hell more than heaven. An eternity of praising God? what kind of afterlife would that be?
No,sorry,this church has now come to its sell by date. And the sooner it goes the better.
If Roman Catholic priests were allowed to get married, like Anglicans, they would not become so sexually frustrated and the problem would not exist.
iv always known the roman catholic church was a sham..iv never bin a believer in it..studyin d bible carefully wuld show u hw flawed it is..i dont bliv in d so called pope...nd nt surprised dt such is happening in d church...ebuka,Lagos,Nigeria
This is a lesson to the Catholic Church to be even more careful about following the Spirit of the world. The children of the 68 sexual revolution were allowed to impact the Church. Today the Church must be very aware of the scandal of abortion otherwise it will only be the Church that will be accused in 40 years from now.when the spirit of the world goes into denial about it's past.
I grew up in the catholic faith and attended a private catholic school for 8 years but I am a catholic no longer. Where in the faith can you find evidence of there being a god. Surely not in the acts of the church or her agents. I see nothing but misery and pain eminating from all religions created by men. I believe that if we stop putting faith in unseen spirits and idoltry and start putting it in each other then we will not only progress as a species, we will also be one step closer finding out who we are and why we are here, which is afterall what religion attempts to answer (but will never be able too).
Even amongst the twelve disciples there was a rotten apple who caused our Lord deep anguish. The remaining 11 however were not to be defined by the misdemeanors of the one.
The very next time one of Jehovah's Witnesses calls at your door, or you see them in the street, ask them for a copy of the book "What does the Bible really teach?"
It won't cost you a penny, but it will give you all of the answers and tell you how it is all going to end. You WILL be amazed.
Seeing that the Roman Catholic Church is a Pagan religion and has nothing in common with the true Christian church of the New Testament it certainly hasn't shaken my faith.
Oh ya...hell would have to freeze over the day I call the Pope "Holy Father"...did ya's know he was part of the Hitler Youth? and now he is the Vicar of Jesus...Ahhhhh ooookaaaay now!!!
Catholic Religion is a Hoax...all those who dare; read please....
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Roman Catholicism/catholic_religion_exposed.htm
The fact is that sin abounds everywhere in the midst of grace. It is a sad situation that this has happened over a long period of time within the Catholic church, and may be in others we have not heard of. However, it highlights one strong common element: that absolute power can easily corrupt. In an institution with little emphasis on the priesthood of all believers, the tendency for control by a fallen man, no matter their ecclesiastical ranking can run into abuse. Jesus has never failed and still remains the author and finisher of the Christian faith. That is where we look at to measure the credibility of our faith and not on man.
These scandals will never impact my faith. Jesus stays Son of God, His words stay the Words of Life and the power of the Holy sacraments is provided to His Church by the Holy Spirit, forever...!
Of course, the church and the guilty ones (a quiet minority) hold the huge responsability of all these sins to the eyes of God but God he is always opened to a sincere repentance. Hope that all of us will choose this path of love, respect and rebuild everywhere we have failed and destroy. God help the church and the whole world !
There will always be negative and positive in everything. The catholic church has always been run by man, and man isn't perfect.. There's no excuse for what a few of the religious leaders have done. Just as with civilian's the legal part of sexual or physical abuse isn't taken seriously and people that are the victims are not getting the legal or psychological help they need and aren't able to move on with their lives. As most victims out there apart of the catholic church or the civilian world there should be more punishment to the perpetrators, this should be the focus.
Absolutely, those churches are another fraud banking systems.
Discover Islam, Read about Islam, Know Islam. It is the time.
The Catholic Church is a criminal organization. It should be treated as such. How ironic that if Hell exists, if will be filled with priests and Pope Benedict (and probably many other Popes, but not Carol Pope).
Club Paedophilia will survive this scandal as it has all the others it has perpetrated on mankind since its inception. And they wonder why their membership is dwindling, except in the 3rd and mostly uneducated world.
I think christians or catholics should let this be the end or the last time that priests should be allowed to do this to any boy. It will not be too late to bring them all to justice but it will be or should be time to tell the priests to get married before they become priests for by so doing they will not go after young innocent boys. It is better to see a gay priest than to see a catholic pretender priest.
One thing that I like about the American system is to let them pay to their last dollar then they will shtart to hold themselves responsible for the things that they have or will be doing.how can the young boys trust you guys. where is God standing and watching over this innocent boys all this years. was" God watching them from a distance " how can they get away for so long a time.
I am an American converted from Islam to a Christianity (Baptist) back in 1996. Christ taught us peace and tolerance. I found peace in 1996 and got out of that ignorant double standard circle of Islam. If there are some nasty child molesters who just happen to be with the church, this does not do anything to my faith and love for our sweet Lord Jesus. These people should be dealt with just like any other ordinary joe shmoe and put behind bars that's all. This is not a rocket science. Lord Jesus is our savior and our faith should be strong enough to brush off the acts of these low-life scumbags.
This scandal should be viewed as proof that our Church is made up of human beings that have virtues and also faults.
Also that some individuals take great satisfaction in extrapolating the errors of a few, to justify their own insecurities and resentment towards the Church or even to manipulate the media and obtain easy money.
As a practicing, conservative Roman Catholic I am constantly reminded of how our Church has suffered and weathered other storms throughout history and, once again, shall prevail.
In all this mess, one thing is clear to me. One thing is the Church of God, of Jesus, of the Virgin Mary, of the Holy Spirit, and of all the teachings by Jesus that make the Catholic RELIGION on one side. The other thing is the Catholic Church, made and ruled by MEN, on the other side. In this one, I´ve lost faith for ages now. The CC has to do with power only, and that has been over-proven now. Not with faith, wioth honesty with compassion. On the CC I´d apply the saying: "Do what I preach, don´t do what I do". And for that I don´t need any Popes, any priests, and whatsoever...
What the leaders of the church does has nothing to do with faith – so no, my stance does not change at all. Its kind of the same as suggesting that one should stop being patriotic if a political leader is charged with corruption. Faith and Jesus goes beyond a couple of priests.
Revelation 18:4 should be recognized
The scandal has not shaken my faith! You will ask why.
First, the sins committed by the clergy over the senturies and now have shocked the faithful, however, the Catholic faith is not a faith in the "personal virtues" of the clergy or "guru" or anyone, it is the faith in the saving sanctity of Jesus Christ. Thus the sins of the clergy have no effect on my faith in Jesus Christ.
Second, I can see and admire the reaction of the Church today to the past mistakes, which gives me real consolation that in the future the past mistakes will not be repeated.
If one looks to other people to confirm one's faith, you will always be disappointed. If one looks to the example Jesus set and His teachings, one will not be disappointed. This is a very sad situation for the victims and their families and they need to be compensated and shown lots of compassion. In addition, these pedophiles need to be brought to justice. My faith as a protestant evangelical has not been shaken, but all communities of faith of all the World's main religions need to set the highest possible moral standard and not engage in cover ups or downplay thse very serious situations.
These scandals are some more wake up calls for people who believe in the absurd idea of existence of a supreme being who is intelligent , kind and fair. This demonstrates the real identity of Catholic church and the pretender Pope who are the promoters of the so-called supreme being. The notion that a God has created our world ( which is just around 11000 years old according to the Bible !!! ) is without a doubt the biggest fraud and hoax in the whole human history.
There is no church on this earth that takes people to Heaven but only those who do the will of the Father in Heaven will enter his Kindom.The Word of God has is being fulfilled as we see now that these people are false apostles.They are deceitful workers who disguise themselvesas apostles of Christ.But I am not suprised!Even satan disguises himself as the angel of light.So it is no wander that his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.In the end they will get the punishment their wicked deeds deserve(2 corinthians 11:13-15)
If you know the truth,the truth will set you free and only Jesus Christ is the way ,the truth and the life.
For those who don't read de Bible: Mark 9:42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a huge millstone63 tied around his neck and to be thrown into the sea.
Who has a pinch of salt in his head knows that the faith in God is not built on other people, it is not built on clergy man, priests or even the Pope, they can help yes, but my faith in God is much much bigger than this scandal. If there are 20/30 priests involved in this scandal, there are a million people who did what they did around the world. What they did is shameful and deplorable, but my faith in God is much bigger than this.
The Cathoic Church sets extremely high standards. Clearly, not everyone can meet those standards, but as with everything else, by striving for perfection we can improve.
The Catholic Church sets extremely high standards. Clearly, not everyone can meet those standards, but as with everything else, by striving for perfection we can improve.
For those who don't read de Bible: Mark 9:42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a huge millstone tied around his neck and to be thrown into the sea."
The Catholic church has tried to hide what was happening, instead of taking action and removing those that were involved. Shame on the leaders of the church for not doing anything and thinking it would go away. It only caused there to be more victims than what would have been had they reported and taken more action. The leaders who tried to hide this knew what was happening and did nothing and therefore should be held accountable just as much as the priests who actually committed the crime. And PS, we need tougher laws for sex offenders, 90% re-offend. So relocation, short jail sentences is not enough. There needs to be more done. Lock them away and throw away the key.
God and all other existing religions are human inventions. Priests and other religious humans definitly will behave as any other human-being living on our Planet Earth...some are good while others are bad, some are crazy others maniac with evil instincts and so goes on the long list...Our biggest problem is, without any exception, all the lies formulated and preached in the name of GOD who is a true fiction, and sadly the lies generated by these religions became so legal evrywhere that one day, in the very near future, it's not pollutions or what so ever who will destroy our planet...but religions will, IN THE NAME OF GOD... :-)
There is evil everywhere, even in the church. My faith is not shaken by these events because my faith is in God and not the people who say they represent Him.
The Roman Catholic church REQUIRES men to live the abnormal life of celibacy in order to be a priest. This requirement ATTRACTS men who WANT to behave abnormally (gay, molesters, etc.) because they see the requirement as PERMISSION to behave abnormally, albeit not necessarily in the way the church leaders claim that they INTEND the abnormal behavior to be conducted by their priests in living a celibate life. This requirement provides a shield for these men to conduct their abnormal behavior. This requirement also DRIVES away men who DON'T want to behave abnormally or live and work in close proximity with men who DO want to behave abnormally.
No one should be surprised that priests, bishops, cardinals and even the pope are behaving sexually abnormally– it is REQUIRED of them. As long as celibacy is a REQUIREMENT of the Roman Catholic church, the priests will continue to behave abnormally, and the leaders will continue to protect them, because this behavior is acceptable to them– they know or find out very quickly what it is all about when they go into the seminary. If they don't want to be part of it, they get out. It is a lucrative and seductive lifestyle for men who want to behave abnormally and be totally protected from the consequences– that is why so many stay in– they know what they are getting into and it is what they want to do.
Get rid of celibacy and allow women to become priests, i.e., get some NORMAL people in there, and the problem will be greatly lessened. It won't go away because people who want to behave abnormally live in all walks of life– but the church will stop being a nurturing haven for them if normal people are allowed into the priesthood. But this is EXACTLY what the church leaders do NOT want to happen.
This type of abuse is across the board with Priests and all the way up to the Pope. It is a (don't ask,don't tell) PRACTICE!!!The Vatican needs to STOP the denial and come clean. This has been going on for hundreds of years. The Vatican should be dealt with by the proper Law Enforcement just like any other child molestation deviants!!!
Please, the roman catholic Pope and Reverend Father, should be allowed to get married, race their own family, the idea of remain unmarry and stiil being sexually corrupt is unbiblical, those who are to remain unmarry should be fulltime servant of God, morally clean, the pope and so called father are just the hypocrat pharisee and saducee of jesus days, they are just like casket neatly decorated outside but inside, dirty, full of rotten bones and every sort of uncleaness, no wonder Bible speaks of them, Mathew Chapter 23 vs 12-33. they serpent offsprings of vipers how are they going to flee from the judgement of God. He who cares should listen to the voice the true God now and walk when their is light, before darkness takes over says the christ, because the time remain has been reduce, critical hard to deal with will be with us in the last days says 2Timothy 2 vs 1-5, part of these time are self acclaimed Roman catholic leaders.
If you understand the books of prophecies. You do not wonder about these.
Rev. 1:3 – Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near.
It is ridiculous to have the Vatican Newspaper trying to defend all this absurd and unspeakable children abuse by saying that the media is biased and forgets all other sources of abuse in many countries.
For God sake, forget any other source of abuse. If there is one source of abuse that catholics would never think of is their own mother church.
Unbelievable. They want an excuse more horrific than the crime itself?
I am a Lutheran pastor, and I feel very strongly that pedophiles go to where they have access to children. In other words, the vessel, i.e. priesthood, was one way to get to these children. Unfortunately the way it was handled was the shame. My faith is not in "THE CHURCH" BUT IN JESUS CHRIST. I still have my faith intact because of HIM. This affects all traditions, not only the Roman Church. I feel that it was more appropriately handled in other faiths after viewing the aftermath of the Roman debacle. The behavior should never, under any circumstances be tolerated or excused. However my faith is not in humanity.
No. This scandal has not affected my faith. Knowing how Cardinal Ratzinger had manipulated his way to the top by having every Cardinal in the Church indebted to him for promotion, I decided to ignore Rome and the Hierarchy and just be Catholic. I use Priests for the Eucharist, Baptisms etc. But never confession. That is between God and I. Now that the scandals have broken I am not at all surprised. Ratzinger rewarded Cardinal Law with a Palace in Rome when we in Boston ran him out of town. I do think Benedict should have to answer to a World Court if he has committed a crime, just the same way as the Nazis. Being Catholic does not mean we have to adhere to what Rome says.
I am a Protestant. I am glad that to see all the comments which point out that all religions are plagued with these sorts of issues to some extent or another. It should also be kept in mind that atheists/agnostics commit child abuse too. Is my faith shaken because I know that religious leaders sometimes say one thing but do another? No. My faith is dependent upon what Jesus Christ did upon a cross about 2,000 years ago, not what any individual or group does today. I follow Christ, not the pope or my pastor or anyone else. That said, I see that this gives those who aren't believers even more reason to be skeptical about Christianity and it breaks my heart. The beautiful message of the gospel is being defamed by a few individuals who choose to be serve their own desires rather than live out its call to self-dying and self-control. The very people who are supposed to represent Christ to this world are representing Satan instead. I hurt for the people whose lives have been directly effected by their sins and I pray that God would work supernaturally to bring them hope, healing and restoration. I also pray that those of us who have been indirectly affected would have wisdom and grace to respond as Christ would have us to in regards to these situations. Amen.
We want to know what you think – how is the abuse scandal affecting you as a Roman Catholic? Has this affected your view on religion? Are you less likely to attend church now?
I am a Roman Catholic and and I will always remain one untill the last breathe of my life. Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the Catholic Church. The Cathlic Chursh is composed of you, me and the priest. We all have our flaws and sins. The concerned American priest/s are the guilty parties not the Christ's Church.
The Milwaukee's Archbishop could have suspended the concerned priest/ Father Murphy from priestly ministry in 1974, when he was evidently convinced that the priest was guilty of gross misconduct. The Milwaukee's Archbishop didn't. Instead he transferred the predator priest to a new diocese, allowing him to continue pastoral work giving him access to other innocent young people. And as if that weren't enough, later another Archbishop made sure that there was no "paper trail." There was certainly a cover-up in this case. It was in Milwaukee, not in Rome.
Nothing will make me lose faith in the Church. There are many holy priests, many holy Catholics and there is the Lord Jesus Christ.
No never,i haven't lost my faith in holy roman catholic church.
Only a few number of priests has commited this horrific crime .They had to
be brought to justice and should be excommunicated from the chruch.As we all know it was priests (jewish) who made a conspiracy
to crucify the lord.No one is exempted from the satanic temptations .Even the lord had to face the temptations .As the end of the day the holy roman catholic chruch must continue it's pilgrimage through out the world,by overcomming these hurdles.
what about all those priest, nuns and religious in general that do their work every day with the outmost of love and sacrifice for the Catholic Church???? those that go about their lives being true testaments of what being a disciple of Jesus Christ really is???? what?? are we to forget those!!!!!!! True, abuse to children is not acceptable in any form.That it has happen within our church brings on a heartache that it is impossible to put into words. Yet those those that have committed these crimes are not the true Catholic Church and they have to be dealt with. That being said, the rest of us suffer with our Church but will come out stronger for it. Persecution of the Church is nothing new. I accept that some may leave,but most of us will stay and stand strong. Pope Benedict XVI will too stand the storm and will continue to be the great leader that he is. With Mary in All Things!!!!!!
As an ordinary Catholic, I am sad, but my faith is not shaken or stirred. The Catholic church's problem is that it is about sin ,atonement , pardon and renewal and not about crime and punishment. This conundrum will not cease to exist, but the church is sure to take measures to minimalise the incidence of molestation et al by more vigorous scanning of priest candidates as well as monitoring of priests' activities. I do not expect the Pope to release daily bulletins , updating the status of molestation cases and remedial measures taken or sacking bishops /cardinals ,as demanded by the media for which the church is always a whipping boy . The church should address the issue by putting necessary measures in place and redress the pain of the victims in whatever possible way. It may not be possible to satisfy the hard-core critics or non-believers or media. After all , things like confession will never be comprehensible to many ,but come holy week ,the queues confession seeking people will still be seen in churches ,though the length may be little less.
Sorry, there is a typo- it should be 'queues of confession seeking people....'
The institutionalized protection of cleric abusers exacerbated by allowing these perpetrators to continue to molest more innocents... disgusting and reprehensible. The "hierarchy" is responsible and the offenders as individuals and the church as in institution should be held accountable to the full extent of civil law for the abuses and for the cover-ups. The pope's cries of attacks on the church is the usual diversion from the real issue. On the positive side, society is finally liberating itself from the invisible shackles of church authority. My thoughts are with the abused children that lived with this in silence and agony for generations upon generations.
THEY ARE DISGUSTING SINERS,
SHOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER THAN ANYONE, BUT TURNED TO BE WORST!
FAITH IN GOD IS ABOUT GOD NOT ABOUT MEN.
The church is a flawed sacrament, my own personal faith isn't changed because someone decided to use their power for wrong doing.
To err is human. These priests are human as anybody else. To go against the church because of a few who sinned is being ridiculous.
I still believe in Christ and nothing will change my faith.
What about the good the Church!!!! Why nobody talks about these good things?
The Catholic insttution is not THE CHURCH. The Church of God consists of people from various backgrounds who confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord. I could never understand how intelligent people can give a human being such as the pope so much power to rule over them. There is only One Head of the Church, and that is Jesus Christ. God has given us as His children the Holy Spirit to teach us and to lead us in all truth. The Gift of the discernment of spirits (evil) is given to us through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit , and it is a pitty that so many Christians are not using this Gift.
Read your bibles when you are at home and let he Holy
Spirit teach you. Know your Word and teach your children to discern between wrong and right. When you know your bible, no man or man made institution can mislead you.
It doesn't shake my faith in Jesus Christ;Faith should not depend on human beings.I believe the current Papacy to be morally questionable and Pope Benedict XVI to be the polar opposite of Christ.Many of the Cardinals-including well known American ones -involved in Child abuse cover-ups,and who have bankrupted certain Dioceses in the U.S.A,have since been promoted to more senior posts in the Vatican by none other than..Josef Ratzinger.
Every Christian must read Matthew chapter 23 to see what Jesus would say about these "princes of the church".
I will keep my faith in Jesus but I do not believe anything that comes from this particular Papacy.
What a hypocritical society we have all become. How come its always bad news like this which makes headlines. Its true this is a very negative moment the Church is going through. But what about CARITAS; what about the missionary priests and nuns who are all over the world tending for the needy. They are making miracles EVERY SINGLE DAY by saving lives; feeding and giving shelter to the needy – how come these people NEVER make news? Evil is reigning everywhere and it seems LOVE thy neighbour has become a word of the past. There is so much HATE everywhere. And the media is the most powerful force favouring this hate and division. What is currently happening to the Catholic Church has not affected me at all. I believe in HIM and that is all that matters. I hope that the Church reconciles its past rapidly.
Allow priests to marry to stop them from molesting kids?
How simple! Then lift the celibacy for the rest of humanity, and get rid of pedophilia! Ha ha ha.
There is no doubt molestation of kids, but what troubles me more is the molestation of common sense.
Worst Crimes Against Humanity
Outside of the really sick in society that we catch, the RCC is the #1 pedo protector. They stop laws that would give justice to victims and families.
It can be said that pedos are mentally ill, no excuses meant, however those who cover it up commit the most horrible crimes against. The RCC covered it up and left the child to fend for themselves. Crimes against small children, who could be so cruel? What if this were your child?
The largest cover up orchestrated by the catholic church beginning at the pope. This is a religion? I hope other religious realize that an old deflection was to claim that others did it too, debunked. Most others cared for children and did not orchestrate a worldwide cover up to protect themselves over tortured children.
How many lives have been destroyed because the RCC convinced lawmakers, their leverage was catholic votes, to stop laws that would have saved children from abuse. In fact the RCC has violated ALL victims of abuse by allowing the acceptance of denial. Why would they do this? They were guilty and needed to protect themselves over the lives of small children. Nothing short of disgusting.
Please, US citizens and all religions, please call your legislators to pass bills that will support victims. Unless you do this, the RCC will continue to calling victims and their families liars. They can say as they will because NO ONE is holding them accountable.
Imagine if this were a day care center, what would you do? Doing any less is simply being a hypocrite. Claiming others did it too, is only a deflection. Instead, just tell them we need to start someplace first and because of the systematic cover ups and proof in documents the RCC is where we begin. If true in other groups, the same follows. Tell those who deflect from these crimes against children that it is real human lives that have been destroyed.
I don't think we should put the blame on the catholic church as a whole, it's the sick individuals that are bringing all the trouble. havent we all sinners at some point?
We should all be the change that we want to see in the world and castigation is not the way forward.
If the church loses it's moral authority then what Credibility does it have left?
Bible is enough to prove that Jesus is not a Got. he did not claim to be a God. there was no such theology like TRINITY in the Church in it first 300 years history. Vatican created Trinity. any one will believe that Jesus is a God will go to the hell. this is the problem in the chritianity today. they are away from the true God. their peiest know it very well. so they become a criminal. and become a member of an organized criminal Institute, Vatican.
Some very powerful people/groups are consistently trying to undermine and discredit the catholic church. This goes for a while already, and it is slow, hidden but consistent. I wonder who they are?
Someone commented that these kind of atrocities don't happen in Islam, what a joke!...... "search if you may" the person says, well first let Islam allow such investigations, second and more importantly, promise those who decide to do such an investigation that their lives will be spared by the findings, i.e. there is no fatwa to "kill them",these kind of abuses happen in all religions, not just the Catholic Church!!!
If we are persecuting the institutionalized Church for past sins committed 20-30 years ago by a small percentage of priests, nuns and church officials, then we the people, and the media, need to be fair and investigate these kind of atrocities for all the major religions......
This scandal does not shake an inch of my faith. We all know the Catholic Church's contribution to what we are today globally, in education, in moral spheres, hospitals, orphanages for the needy, missonary work to the unwanted / untouchables / unloved / orphans / handicapped etc... ..across continents !!!
It is true that a high moral office of a Pope can be attacked due to the failings of 0.001% of its folks, but then they are all mortals aren't they !!!and deserve forgiveness and repenteance !!!
May I ask to all those who are throwing stones against the Catholic Church (especially some of the popular media institutions by giving extensive coverage) , what will be today's world without this institution ??? Well the answer would be barbaric world or atleast a backward civiliization on devils principles (Eye for an Eye; Blood for Blood; middle age practices etc...). So please don't show your emotions, but behave rationally weighing the fruits rendred by 2000 + years of the Papacy !!! And for the Vatican it is time to take strict action against priests who deviate from the principles of Catholicism !!! We need a Vatican III to bring strong reforms, that could put fear on those bold priests (who preach fear to the LORD, but themselves don't practice it ) !!! Long live Catholicism !!!
As a catholic this scandal, or whatever you may call it, has nothing to do with my faith. "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. God of God, light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the remission of sins. And I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
But I feel deep pain, specially for the victims and also for those who share the Apostle's Creed and everything that follows from it.
The Catholic religion / church is totally hypocritical.
How can the abusive actions and denials of the so called religious leaders be justified? How can the church's inaction during WWII be justified? How can the church's practice of forgiving murderer's and other criminals just because they "confess" before these idiotic religious leaders?
vintage main stream media. If do not understand how christinity works may be you should be humble enough to ask. It is never about anybody or the church. It is about ones personal relationship with God. If the church fails you that does not mean God has failed you. Focus on God and forget all this denominations we created to satisfy our egos. To those abused I appreciate your circumstances and I am praying for your to have the grace and strenght to forgive and do away with past offences that will keep you from living a fufilled life. God peace and healing be with you always.
If you let the actions of others decide your faith, then your faith wasn't worth much to begin with.
Any group that turns and looks away when children are abused are not following principles of Christianity. There should be a demand to purge those that practice or condone such actions on children.
Come on people, if you take whole bunch of men and tell them they cannot have sex, what do you think is going to happen? Anyone who says the sin is not the churches but the the priests, wake up. The church did the cover up, that is the real sin. The pedophiles are the homosexual priests. What about the heterosexual ones, what do you think they are doing with your daughters? Your wives?
As a former Catholic and now protestant, the scandal in the church will hurt the cause of Christ for us all. Having said that the Catholic Church has to get away from "any appearance of evil". The guilty ( and there are many) have to be dealt with according to the law. This may result In the resignation / incarceration of many officials at many levels. However, if that is what it takes , then lets get on with it. The sharing of the Gospel of Christ is the most important mission of any church. That is above all
First I must acknowledge that I don`t believe in catholic church an the abuse that occured does only confirm my attitude.
To DJC and the wonderfull liberal world believers,
I'll try to make it short and clear.
1/ It looks like some need a little reminder about what did the Catholic church during centuries. History , memory and legacy are necessary to try to build a better world... History of church is tightly linked to the European AND American History and is a mixed of glory,darkness and marvels during centuries. Some men and women gave their lives heroically days after days or as martyrs. Monks cultivated wild areas, schools,universities and hospitals were built , arts and sciences flourished.... Don't think in your fantasy that you are born from nowhere or that you are living in a new wonderfull liberal world "with no religion too, imagine all the people" you created yourself....
2/ During the last centuries the western world appeared to take a different curse forgetting its living roots and beside good things it seemed to go crazy with lunatic totalitarian ideologies , genocides and massive slaughters.
Western ideologists promoted "liberal ideologies" based on the relativist dogma and destruction of their cultural legacy and wisdom.
Liberals promoted a lunatic fake "freedom" with no bounds at an individual level and collectivism (in order to control the crowds)at a natonal and even international level with the help of big medias.
Reminding this History our History is necessary to understand the struggle and the fight which is happening now between a certain amoral liberalism and on the other hand the catholic church and many kind of so-called conservatives.
I not surprised by what's happening now and i remember well what happened with Bill CLINTON and a very young woman in the WH.
I remember well what happened with Roman POLANSKY and Dany COHN-BENDIT a current french "green"(and "red") politician who made the apology of paedophilia during the seventies...
It is an old strategy to try to distract people's mind and accuse your ennemy of your own turpitudes and perversions in order to weaken and silence him.
Gay activists for instance and many associations or activists are eager to silence the catholic church. They regularly make violent protests in churches....
As for the priests who made or could have made bad things i believe it is true but not to the extent that some would like to make people believe. But anyway NO ONE can be said guilty if he has not been found guilty BY A TRIAL with an attorney
I was abused several by different catholic priests in North Central Nigeria, as a mass server. But because of poverty and the fact that my parents who ardent catholics won't believe me I kept shut. Catholic priest are not only gay, they are sexually active sleeping with both married and unmarried women. Something need to be done fast, the church is treading the path of destruction.
I read the Pope's letter about abuse. Part of it mentioned how changes with Vatican II might have been misinterpreted.
But many examples of abusing church officials (as known so far) go back well before those changes during the miod sixties.
It's interesting (to quote Wikipedia) that "Pope John often said that it was time to open the windows of the Church to let in some fresh air."
Belief in any God should be considered a mental illness.
Same scandal different day.
The Catholic Church (three stories this week alone, again)
The Jehovah's Witnesses (1600 cases worldwide sting, five years back all minors, six precident cases with financial payouts in USA)
The Boy Scouts of America (CNN abuse story last week, 100 years of files)
now another catholic story with deaf kids.
Good reporting, sad stories. At least the public is awake now to these sad but true facts.
Shedding tears for these victims.
This is a cult, not a religion! Fabricated by men to brainwash and control millions of people. Everything they believe in is against god! If you have a brain you can easily figure it out. This is not Christianity nor it is in any way shape or forme associated with the teachings of Jesus Christ. It is against nature for a man and a woman to not get married. Marriage and sex is a duty on every human being, men and women. when priests dont get married and have sex is against gods creation. He created us lioke that, that is the nature of man so why would he ask us to do the opposite of that!!! Seems like a god with no knowledge and no common sense!! But as we know that is not true. God is all knowing. So he knows that thgis kind of law would lead into this sickness that is widespreading in the catholic cult.
Ihope i am not offending anyone, i am just trying to to make a valid point. sorry if i did
The media seem to like drama. Father Joe across my street is a saint but his story is not in the news. The scandals are not shaking my faith. I am in the process of being ordained a priest not because people will like me or any other intention than following Christ for the rest of my life. My faith is not shaken by some propaganda.
To be frank with you, I am sick and tired of hearing the news of sex abuse. Why are we treating this negative human act as if it is strange to man. If we accept the fact that every man has the tendency to fall, then the fall of a Catholic priest – whether once, twice, or several times – should not overshadowed more important issues in the world today. If some think it is easy to be a Catholic priest, then they should go and try it. No one in his just and right senses would condone evil. But when evil evolves, we don't celebrate it; we deal with it. The media is celebrating this "evil", and by so doing, trying to kill the faith and vocation within and towards the Catholic faith. But the bible says "and the gate of hell shall not prevail against it." Thus, no matter how you guys try to paint the Church black, the truth is that, you will fail. For the visible sign of the Body of Christ has a divine aspect that is beyond the apprehension of man or woman.
So rather than give room to persons who have lost touch with God and faith in Christ an opportunity to make unfounded statements about the Church, focus on more important issues in the world. Look at Haiti, the people are still living in tenths; look at the Palestinians dieing everyday; look at Africa where leaders enrich themselves and kill the poor; is not also time to examine the reason why banks in Europe and America would keep stolen funds from poor countries. Please, please, leave our Pope alone. He is the vicar of Christ. He is the supreme leader of Christ's faith. He is a shepherd. He is the servant of the servants of God. We love him the way he is. We love the Church the way she is – where saints and sinners commune together.
As an American Catholic, the scandals have not shaken my faith, but they have certainly made me disgusted with the institution. We need a major housecleaning, and the sooner the better. But I'm not about to abandon ship. As the apostles said to Jesus, "Where else can we go? You have the words of eternal life".
Which makes it all the more imperative to deal with these scandals,, and not cover them up!
I long ago figured out that seminaries were a cocktail of abuse and sexual dysfunction, mixed with guilt and low self-esteem then topped off with delusion and penance. Without this fodder the numbers of priests would be greatly reduced, which explains the reluctance of the church to prosecute abuse by its members.
Although born and raised as a catholic, I was able to think it through and realized early on that most religions are based on superstition and unprovable premises of the extremely unlikely kind. Most are based on books about ancient anecdotes of dubious veracity that, read without prejudice, contradict the interpretation of preachers.
I find it appalling that so many are unable or unwilling to think critically. If they did they would soon realize that the cup of religion is indeed empty; that a substitute based on another set of ridiculous premises is completely unnecessary, and that human endeavour has been steered in unhelpful directions for so long. I say to them, open your eyes and find the real beauty and purpose of life.
If priest were to marry, they would turn into Jimmy Swaggarts!! Why don't we analize all these perverts too! Why do people follow them still?
The latest news of abuse has simply deepened the crevasse between myself and the Church (thinking the capital "C" should no longer apply). If you cannot trust the people who are leaders of your religion, who can you trust?
As a catholic, i am sad about the situation.But for me that doesnot me an any thing becouse my faith stong and is connected between me and christ.He is the way.The rest are human and have humuly weeknessess.As christ tought hate sins not sinners.May god forgive them and give them the stength to keep away from sins.
The Catholic Church has traditionally served its own interests above the interests of anything else. It is motivated primarily by securing its own authority and protecting itself, first and foremost. That it continues to simply try to blame the perpetrators and comment about mistakes being made and abstract regret over suffering, instead of recognizing its own culpability in protecting those who have committed these crimes, demonstrates this. This Bishops and Cardinals and, it appears, the Pope himself put their institutional interests above those of the most vulnerable of their charges. In any other organization, this would be viewed as criminal.
Those who say they will stick by the Church no matter what enable abuse and crimes. The idea that you can confess to a third party, and all is forgiven (never mind the victim), enables abuse and crimes. The idea that those within the Church are "the chosen ones" and have authority sets up an environment where abuse and crimes are possible.
The structure is rotten because of it's construction on the notion that somehow, these people answer to a higher power. Maybe they will at the end of their time here, but they don't now. Anyone wanting to see this could have.
But then again, perhaps the Church will say they can just (and in fact need) to confess these sins and be forgiven. Then, we might all come to the Churchly understanding that it's really those who were "tested" by these priests who must pray that they find the inner strength to forgive their abusers and stop the persecution! And, hopefully, shut the hell up (let us pray...)
False religion has become the "dwelling place of demons" (rev 18:2) Today we have mass suicide bombers, child molesterers, genocide, wars and many more wicked things done in the name of religion. The bible says of all false religion: "her sins have massed together clear up to heaven" becouse of these kinds of acts. (Revelation18:4,5) The bible says that soon all the governments of this world are going to turn on all religion (Babylon the great) and destroy it. They will "eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire" meaning they will take away all her wealth and burn or destroy her becouse of the wicked things that has been done in the name of religion. (Rev Chapter 17) That time is called THE GREAT TRIBULATION and it is a tribulation the is so big that one like it "has not occurred since the worlds beginning until now" (Mathew 24:21). Armageddon soon follows the great tribulation (Rev 16:16)
Raised in a conservative Catholic family, I have largely abandoned the Roman Catholic Church years ago given its hateful stance against gays and lesbians. The sexual abuse by Catholic priests - and the concurrent defensive attitude of the almighty Vatican - has only served to underscore that I made the right decision.
Priest are brainwashed into believing they are specially selected and called by name into the Priesthood by God and from the time they walk through those seminary doors, they learn that they are a select and special breed of men. Dioceses and the Parishioners treat them like little gods, showering them with extrordinary gifts, meals, tickets, trips, new vehicles etc.This special treatment becomes the norm in a priests life and they begin to believe they are entitled and deserving of it. I have worked in the Catholic Church with different priests and have seen how this lifestyle (combined with the no sex, no marriage rules), are just a complete recipe for creating very emotionally sick men.
My faith is not in men, but in the person of Christ and his word... Humankind will keep on sinning, and sick people will keep on hurting others, especially those most vulnerable.
The crisis the Catholic Church is faced with saddens me deeply; I will continue to pray for the victims and hope that justice will come forth. However, I am a Catholic because of Jesus and those who have truly followed him. I will never abandon my church or it's teachings.
I was raised in the Catholic Church. At this point in my life, my faith is in God, not in ANY Church. Churches are just the business side of faith. Obviously, the Catholic Church has dodged accountability and any significant consequences regarding all the abuse cases. These cases should be treated like any other criminal case. These are CRIMES not some "mistake" to be "sorry" for; and, as such, they should be treated as criminal acts. The perpetrators should be brought to justice. And that would include any accessories after the fact. Enough of the cover-up. Time to clean house and start over. WWJD?
I USED to be a Catholic – NOW I know there cannot be a God! If, as they preach, an all-loving all-being God watches over us, then these people would not exist. ESPECIALLY within God's own house! The reactions of the Church Bishops, Cardinals and others to these vilest of all criminals is proof that these morons know nothing of truly loving people and nourishing faith. Any good Christian would understand that the Catholic Church has acted in bad faith for decades (or even longer) and is only interested in expanding their power and wealth – something the Bible teaches is wrong.
Forget the Catholic Church! There can not be a God. Be a good person and other people will treat you well. The you will die and be returned to the Earth, nothing more.
I've long ago learned about the dysfunction of the current institutional system of the Church and the damage it does. But I still love my faith and my tradition.
No sir, nothing can change my faith in the mother church. I listen to the teachings of the priest. I don't need to emulate his actions. If I follow the teachings of the mother church I will save my soul, whereas the priest may be damned forever for his actions. We have a saying in the Catholic Church – Don't emulate the pope because he may go to hell but listen to his teachings because they may lead you to heaven. I can only stop been a Catholic when the pope or priest tells me to become a pedophile during their sermons. Anything short of this will not make me lose faith in the Mother Church.
God has revealed to us in "Revelation" the signs of the end days. This abuse of children by some false priests and even the smear campaign by the enemies of the Church all have been predicted. Former communists in Europe and China and Vietnam communists (red capitalists) are now much richer than many Western capitalists and they have ample funds for their propaganda to destroy the Catholic Church as they know they it was the Church who has brought down the former Soviet Union and it is the Church who is leading the movement to topple the communist dictatorships in China and Vietnam now. The liberals in the US and Europe have also found that the Church has never tolerated gay and abortion promoters.
Forced me out in 1980 after I worked for them for ten years. Every priest i knew was either gay, alcoholic ,or had a girlfriend or family, or both. I see most priests as feeling entitled. Without exception every one I knew that had the decency to leave, still believed they were owed a living, and became involved in one crooked undertaking or another. For example: One priest had his doctorate as a psychologist. He was found guilty of molesting adult, female patients. He lost his license to practice in California, and continued to practice "pastorally. " He never missed a session or payment as a result of his conviction. He and his wife also lied to the IRS about the money they brought in from income. They made a $3000 payment on $500,000 worth of income. Last I heard they lived in Corona Del Mar, California some of the priciest real estate you can find anywhere. Life was good when you're better than other people.
I am catholic and my faith is the same. Government Authorities should act without looking at the church that is involved. Also it is hard to believe in people that ask for money compensation.
As a "lapsed" Catholic, I have come to believe the old adage that
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely....
I now stay away from ANY organized religions and rely on a personal relationship between myself and my maker.....No need for a middleman
If my faith was on the "church" yes it would have been shaken. But my faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ.
What does the Catholic Church do? They wait until the sexual abusers "priests" die and then they come out and say SORRY, we knew about it but then do anything at the time, and know the priest is to old or dead. I wonder if this or any of the other Popes think, what would Jesus have done in this situation? I doubt that He would do the same thing they are doing, covering up and sit on it for 30 to 40 years, and then uncover it. Do they have a conscious?
Enduring my share of physical abuse while attending a Catholic school kindergarten, I am greatly grieved by how many Catholic Church leaders has mishandle situation involving child abuse. Our Church and our Christian movement filled with sinners has been corrupted by individuals who fail to live up to the ideals of Jesus Christ. Despite our failures, including me being no perfect saint, my faith in Christ whom the Church represents remains unshaken. Corruption in religion dates back to beginning of humanity and today will be not exception. I remain loyal to Christ and I remain faithful to my Christian practice because by doing so, I affirm the teaching of the Church and Christ which is serving Christ and fellow members of the human family.
I was raised as a Catholic, but questioned the role of the church and its out dated/intolerant social policies not allowing women to serve as priests, anti-condom/anti-abortion and branding gays as sinners.
After reading the written legal documentation of the predator priest Murphy of Wisconsin, I strongly believe that the Pope should resign.
The church is hypocritical and the system of the papacy is evil in itself. I still believe in God and the Holy Spirit, but I do not believe in the Catholic Church.
I have decided to acknowledge myself with the Episcopal Church and I encourage all Catholics to rethink their support of the Pope.
If it were only a few of the clergy's crimes, it would not have brought on such deep shame and disappointment. It is because that the highest authority has shown so little concern for the impact it could have on all Catholics – even seemingly deliberately hiding the crimes that Catholicism has let me down. I am Catholic by coincidence – schooling reasons – that I knew of this religion, and I think no less of Christ as a guide to live by, which remains my guide for the rest of my life. But now I have some doubt, I'm going to be more critical about the people behind the teachings. I still believe and will continue to believe in the goodness of Jesus Christ as Savior, but I will not be so naive anymore as to believe in the purity of thoughts, words and deeds of the so-called "shepherds of the flock". My eyes have been opened and my heart is watchful, my mind critical – except my belief in Christ, the founder of the now-shaken, scarlet-blemished Roman Catholic Church. Thank God that it has not (not yet, – God prevent it) reached the Catholic Church in Indonesia. I am very sad for all members who have so far been faithful and devastated by the clergy in their homeland. I would appreciate honesty and responsibility from the institution or else it cannot be called holy. For me now, only God is holy, and no other on this earth. As for the sacrament of confession, I would tend to think in the confessional: who is behind the screen? A criminal to whom I would confide my weakness? Hope this will contribute. Thank you
I would add, that this will be in history – for ever. To sooth the whole thing a tiny bit , I think the topmost responsible leader should step down.
There are 500 million Roman Catholics in the world. Probably one million are truly living the Church's teachings of holiness. That leaves 499 million perverts, hypocrites, apostates, blasphemers, and other assorted losers who have no idea what it means to be a true son or daughter of Holy Mother Church. My faith is not in the least bit shaken by those among us-be they priest, bishop, or pope-who failed to live out the Gospel teaching of holiness. They will spend an eternity in the deepest pit of hell regardless of how "important" they are in the eyes of the world. Try not to judge the Church by those who are really evil and call themselves "Catholic". Every denomination has them, not just us.
I knew of a brave Catholic priest in Australia who was sickened by the sexual sins (and others) of the heirachy leadship in that country, that he began to expose their evil deeds. Under summounting pressure he was told to 'shut his mouth." Sadly, in the end he commited suicide, but here is one religious man who saw all that evil and had the guts to say 'no' to it all. Don't worry folks, there is a lot more filth to be exposed from within the Catholic church worldwide, and God is hearing the cries of all the abused victims..all those whose lives have been ruined at the expense of ruthless and sinful leaders. May all such leaders be defrocked and totally brought to justice.
As an atheist, my friends ask what is my "moral compass" if I dont believe in God. Scandals like this one only strengthen my view that the question would best be poised in reverse...
Definitely the case is really contrary to their vocation. The main problem I think is their formation during their seminary's days and formators are not up to the mark or might not care much. It is better to ask the good and promising candidates to leave wrongly than to let the bad and stupid candidates stay and become priests. Due to shortage of priests, there should not be leniency of accepting for ordination. It is better to make mistake in expelling the good seminarians than ordaining unbalanced and who are not normal. The evaluation and acceptance of responsible for training and bishops are extremely important. It is good that the Church is admitting the faults of its members and for the future, it should take some concrete measures to tackle this kind of problems but not to hide. I am sure their celibacy is not creating that problems but their psychological health and lack of proper psycho-spirituality formation.
Hey man. I was born a Catholic. I will die a Catholic. But I never had faith in our priests. Priests are mere human. Subject to temptation. Subject to sin. Subject to pedophilia. They were never and will never be like Jesus Christ. But don't you f–k tell me that your religion is better. I'm feeling good being a Catholic. You're telling me your religion is better because you want more believers to join your religion. You want us to join you religion. There is no way I will shift to another religion.
I think the Catholic Church is tubular and nothing will shake my faith. It's so easy to attack the Catholic Church because it is an old hierarchical institution that has played a very string role in Western History. Throughout time biases have arisen amidst a changing world of political, sociological, and economic fluctuations. Reformations have come about and I have to say that American Society holds many of these biases because we are more or less a protestant nation. Most people don't even know why they are anti-Catholic. Child abuse and harassment is wrong I don't see anyone here praising it. However rather than manifest our unreasonable and irrational attacks upon a faith and group of people think about where the problem lies. From my perspective It does not matter whether you are married or not, if you are a pedophile you are sick and need help. Changing a certain doctrine may thwart this but ultimately I believe there just needs to be more vigilance and transparency even within the Church.
I just get the feeling that these "victims" of the molestation are just trying to get money from the church. The media is just trying to get as much out of this as the money hungry "victims". Mark my words sooner or later one of these victims are going to sue for "damages"
Now im not denying that some molestations actually occur and yes the priests in this case should be punished by law and excommunicated if they do not repent.
The media and other skeptics should also stop their petty and relentless efforts in trying to defame the Catholic Church.
Covering up a few child molestations seems like child's play when stacked next to condoning the outright murder of innocent nonbelievers for the better part of the last millennium now, doesn't it? Inquisition anyone? Crusades ring a bell?
Priests, Bishops, Sisters, we are all people. They have the same temptations as we all do. I think we are in need of more prayer at this time for the weak who are easily tempted than to just look down upon them and let this issue become the past. We need to continuously pray and help those around us, for the better of the society and the world.
These abuses have been the “modos operandi” for CENTURIES. It is estimated that 80% of priests are homosexuals. I was born in a catholic home and in a catholic country; by the way these countries are the poorest in the world and must ignorant of the world. You ever wonder why?
Some people believe that this happens in other denomination the difference is that in the Catholic Church is a policy of the institution to shut up and cover these molestations. In other words, it is an institutionalized policy of the government of the Vatican by the way the Catholic Church Is not just a church is a state. One of the richest you wonder why?
Jim and Tammy Bakker!! Hello!! Let's bring these good christians to the table!
The Catholic Church is surely being singled out for extreme criticism when these problems exist in all our other institutions as well. But as a Catholic, I think that's probably good. It means that the public expects the Church to lead in moral issues, not to have them. We need to use the energy of this fierce and generally justified onslaught to give us the impetus to do the total housecleaning required. The Church will survive and I will continue to be part of it. Hopefully I can be more proud than ashamed of the media coverage in the future.
Am sorry for the people that call themselves Christians that open their mouth to talk nonsense because they think this scandal gives them the right to blaspheme. Let me tell you something, the worst sin you can commit in your life is the sin against the Holy Spirit, that is blasphemy. Nobody has any right to judge another person talk more of the Catholic church.
I warn you to be careful of what you say about this scandal so that you won't condemn your own self thinking that you are saying your mind. We are mortals and we operate in the fresh. Do not blaspheme against the church,to avoid incurring the rot of God.
I checked out of the church many scandals ago. I'm amazed the people can ignore the long history of abuse and cover-ups to stand by the church. It is not a few people who make mistakes – it is a system that supports this kind of behavior. You don't need the church to worship god.
I am appalled at the response of the Vatican to these litany of abuses of childrn and women by the men in cassock. This is a case of i didnt see anything, and even if i was there, i was asleep. The Catholic Church and all churches around the world should begin to lead the world by example as exemplified by the Lord Jesus Christ. The odium coming from high places in these churches, ike paedophilia, homosesexuality are a huge distraction to our children and our collective sanity.
Only a Catholic can answer this question. My faith does not depend on the actions or inaction of priests, I realise they are just men with flaws like the rest of us. Do I believe the Church should clean house and kick out all the pedophiles and active homosexuals – yes.
Have I lost faith – no.
It is a faith that requires some very difficult life choices and stretches you to do absolute good even to the detriment of self. The doctrine is pure, but evil has entered the priesthod and must be rooted out. There can be zero tolerance from now on. Catholics can forgive everyone anything – forgivness is one of the base principles. – but crimes such as these are atrocious and the perpetrators should do their time in prison and seek forgiveness from there.
For those who advocate that faith should die – how are they to do this? A purge like Mao and Stalin? How about a Hitler style extermination of all catholics? So long as humans have souls, they will be called to the Lord and many will answer, many will not and write letters to newspapers demanding that others cease practicing their faith.
A black soul does the damage in society – and it can be garbed in priestly clothes or dressed up as a kindergarten teacher, sports coach, social worker and just about anyone.
I am a Catholic, and will remain so.
Why didn't God protect the children from his holy representatives here on earth, these monstrous priests ? What cause could be more worthy ?
At the age of 10, I moved from the States to Europe and lived in a boarding school run by nuns. I had been brought up as a catholic and believed in my religion. After 4 years; I had learnt that verbal and physical abuse were part of the daily catholic way of life. Liars were rewarded, the poor were beaten and those kids with less fortunate parents were taken advantage of in every way. I lost my faith and do not believe in the church and their words ever since. The present scandals and the reactions of the catholic church do not surprise me in anyway; they only confirm my experience. When will ALL these pedophiles be punished, not only by the church but also by the secular authorities?
In his letter to the Irish Church, the Pope characterizes instances of sexual abuse as "canonically irregular situations". Clearly, the Church is still in full denial. A "canonically irregular situation" would be if you lit the purple candle instead of the white one. The sexual abuse of a child by someone in a position of trust and authority is much, much more than just a "canonically irregular situation". I have not words for how outraged I am by this. Jesus, Himself, said "suffer not the little children". I, for one, have lost total faith in the Church and find myself in a crisis of faith over all of this. I will never, ever respect ANYTHING that the Catholic church has to say ever again. Banish the perverted priests to HELL! Or better yet, hang them by their scrotums until they die. Crucifixtion would be far to kind.
This is just a test of our Faith.......no matter what happened I will continue to believe the teachings of the Catholic Church......Pray and it works!
I am one of the "automatic" Catholics, i.e. baptized shortly after birth and expected to follow the flock till I die. I have never become very active church goer although I really tried. I have always felt like a member of a political party striving for power and wealth, held together by instilled fear of "eternal hell", where "policy" is above everything. Moral values, ethics, justice, honour and plain decency, sadly, coming second. For years I tried hard to see the "whole picture", in perspective, without bias. I am now 50. I have lived and worked all over Europe. The recent public display of attitudes and actions of church leaders leaves me deeply disillusioned.
Although the crimes that have been committed are real and should be addressed, the crisis that the Church is facing does not make me lose my faith in it. But it does make me lose my faith in mass media as the portrayal of the whole issue cannot even be called balanced.
Devil has attacked the very foundations of the Holy Catholic Church and we must stand united in our prayer now more then ever. God will keep his promise given to Peter that "gates of hell will not prevail it " but we need to pray harder.
My faith is not defined but what church leader does or doesn't do. Show me one religion without blood or skeletons in this planet and i'll stand corrected. My faith did not diminish by this monstrosity. In fact it has propelled me to pray more for both priests and their repentance as well as victims . if my faith where shaken by these crimes then i didn't had it to begin with. better be without faith then be a lukewarm catholic is what i say.
Please stop arguing and leave you bitterness behind and pray, after all it's what Jesus would have done and He calls us all to be like him. I urge you to pray for the salvation of those involved in these incidents (perpetrators and victims both) no matter what denomination or religion you might be. God will reward you abundantly if you do.
God bless you all Catholics and non Catholics alike abundantly.
I watched a report last night on CNN with an Irish Singer and she suggested going to the Irish Justice Government web site which I did
I had no idea of the enornity of what went on whitin the Church.What really annoys me is the cover up the vow of silence.
When everyone knows "SILENCE GIVES CONSENT"
If I were to try and cover up anything in my line of work I would be immediatly dismissed lose my licence and have no pension rights and indeed be BLACK LISTED. I believe all the abusers are living quite nicely.
I would rather be murdered than sexually abused and I would commit suicide if I was sexually abused.
WHAT GIVES ANYONE THE RIGHT TO SEXUALLY VIOLATE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING?
I had a hard time sleeping after reading some of the reports on IJG web site. my suggestion are that all who covered up these crimes this includes everyone The Pope, Bishops, civil authorities, nuns and teachers
should be sent to GUANTAMANO BAY and have some waterboarding therapy. Yes release the detainees there as I am sure they would need the space..
I am well aware that sexually abuse happens in every religion and culture but IT IS NOT OK.
Jesus had no problem with the Tax collecters and the corruption in the Temple and that is a great example for all Catholics Do as Jesus would have done and yes there is forgiveness but the price must be paid and all the stuff about compensation is rubbish , who needs it?
Marked for Life can never be compensated with money.
The Church can spend the money on rehabilitation for itself and its members.
There is a huge difference between Religion and Spirituality and anything the leaders of the church do will not influence my belief or trust in the Church. There are still Good people around, people who walk the walk and talk the talk.
Let justice be done and the guilty resign..
I am a Muslim, and i am very upset at what is happening in the Catholic Church.
All human being sin but coming from religions leaders and at this scale is a disturbing matter and must be looked at seriously.
It is important to look for the history and historical changes that happened to the Catholic Church to date, including mistranslations and deviations occurred when translating the holly book from Hebrew language to Greek, and then to modern languages English and other languages.
Priest are humans like every human, and have biological needs that must be fulfilled, among them sexual needs, and this is the main reason that pushed priest to molest innocent children.
So why not allowing priests to marry and have a balanced life?
Maybe it is time to review the holly bible and compare with major other revealed books specially the Torah and the Quran to find common grounds to teach to all people.
Religion is an important matter as it leads someone either to hell or paradise.
I am completely shell-shocked. I converted to Catholicism some years ago and I am seriously contemplating leaving the church. Yes, priests are not perfect, and we cannot expect them to be saints, but they should be held to a much higher standard than the rest of us, because the Church, which bars homosexuals, divorced people, etc has placed them on that pedestal. The thought that someone who committed such vile deeds has with the very same hands consecrated the body and blood of Christ, listened to confessions and in some cases forced the very people they have abused to confess before them makes me ill. Yes just last week a child of lesbian parents was refused access to a Catholic school. The church has betrayed the Gospel, they have betrayed the ordinary Catholics and most of all they have betrayed the vulnerable victims of abuse.
In a nutshell, "the past cannot be un-done",The Catholic church has an "opportunity" right now by showing the "devoted" what actions they will take ,as well, I understand the Pope receies a plethora of memos, letters , notes and documents which he personally simply doesn´t have time to read...personally which allows issues "slip through the cracks".
So He should have a committee dedicated to pouring over said documents, and to raise a "red flag" when something is amiss.
Not unlike the Roman Empire of old, the Catholic church has grown so large that the Vatican doesn´t have control over so many diocies, and maybe it would help to consolidate and re-organize the organization so it becomes "micro-manageable".
Especially considering there are so many "sects" within the church that hae their own sets of rules.For that I have a solution, all sects should use the same set of rule:The Ten Commandments!
The Catholic insttution is not THE CHURCH. The Church of God consists of people from various backgrounds who confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord. I could never understand how intelligent people can give a human being such as the pope so much power to rule over them. There is only One Head of the Church, and that is Jesus Christ. God has given us as His children the Holy Spirit to teach us and to lead us in all truth. The Gift of the discernment of spirits (evil) is given to us through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit , and it is a pitty that so many Christians are not using this Gift.
Read your bibles when you are at home and let he Holy
Spirit teach you. Know your Word and teach your children to discern between wrong and right. When you know your bible, no man or man made institution can mislead you.
I am saddened that some men have put their carnal desires above their vows, rending physical harm and emotional devastation to young innocents. These are men at their most base, fallable, and disagreeable human form. But they are few in number compared to the whole of the faithful priesthood. More than 90,000 priests serve God and their duties to the Church with honor and grace around the world. The ones who falter are few, but hurt many. I was raised Catholic, attended mass at hundreds of churches around the world; I have never experienced anything more than a cranky priest. At this time when the Church is charged with the deeds of men, I remain strong in my faith, knowing that the Church needs its true followers now to live a holy catholic and apostolic life. God's Blessings upon all.
we all know that a clear distinction must be made between our beliefs and the church. The church is made up of human beings with their weaknesses. Considering what was done during the years of inquisition, it would be naive to expect the church to have high standards and to be a true representative of the deity they are supposed to represent. So it seems to me that the latest developments are but another expression of the limited relevance of church in our attempts to communicate with a superior being. If there is something out there, it is up to each of us to find a personnal way to come in contact with it. Believing that priests or pastors or rabbys or mullahs or monks are closer to the truth is a sign of wekness and can only lead to disillusion.
I was born in Italy, forced when baby to be catholic. When i started questioning this, everyone including my parents didnt have an answer.
When i went to school, priests and nuns when there, abusing kids and talking about genitalia and sex. Everybody knew but they where psycologicaly threaten by the church. I really whish for the catholic church/corporation, to close their business in a very short time.
My faith was destroyed long ago by the very people who boast their own faith. The problem with religions is that they inevitably fall into the power trap and become corrupted. It happens at the micro-level, i.e., little denominations led by fanatic "preachers" who believe that they hold the absolute truth to the world, and it happens in the big versions of the same.
Power. That is the problem. The problem is not a self-chosen celibacy. It is the notion of absolute power. Rape is an expression of power.
And we have given those religions far too much power and we still do. They should be ignored out of existence. Even the ethical high ground they attempt to plead is nothing more than something they swiped from philosophers.
As for the bible, it is not the word of god. It was written by a people who knew exactly what they were doing: Establishing a power structure across the known world, one that functioned through violent repression, obscene forms of torture and lies.
Anyone who still believes that stuff must be a few chapters short of a book.
I have a relationship with God. The Catholic Church has absolutely nothing to do with that. I know the church is corrupt and nothing that it does surprised me at all.
The corruption of the church will not affect my faith in any way.
All I can say is that it is the church of God, unfortunately it is administered on Earth by men, and men are flawed beings. Anyone who attends Mass for any other reason that because their eyes are fixed on Jesus is there for the wrong reason. It is a scandal for sure, and those involved should be deeply ashamed. But as an institution, it is beyond the actions of mere mortals. We were promised that the stand will always stand and that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" Matt 16:18. For those who can not see why they are really there, and those who have yet to feel the awesome power of the grace of God I shall pray him to unveil your eyes.
I believe in God and He has nothing to do with human actions... My faith is roted in Hi and not i a human being.I believe pedophile priests should be put in jail like an other person who commits a crime in society.There are good priests as there are good pastors or guides o other religions. Religon wil lnot save you..spiritualism will. No church is above the right to respect the inoccent. In jail pls... and down with silence
I believe in God and He has nothing to do with human actions... My faith is rooted in Him and not in a human being.I believe pedophile priests should be put in jail like an other person who commits a crime in society.There are good priests as there are good pastors or guides fo other religions. Religon will not save you..spiritualism will. No church is above the right to respect the inoccent. In jail pls... and down with silence
No it has not shaken my faith, but it has caused me to see the deeper reality that humans regardless of position are finite even at best, and the 'greater ONE' for me is the proclaimed Savior, Jesus Christ, ultimately in whom my faith rests for now and eternity.
The Church–any church–is comprised of people. People make bad decisions and engage in unacceptable behavior regardless.
Every great insitution and by great I refer to as in size and power will suffer the consequencies of its members being human. By human I refer to the weakness that humans have and at times lose control over. This is by no means justifying any one's wrong actions but its to point out that its not only the Catholic Church that is flawed, you will see that in any insitution. So I find it strange that the media loves to just point fingers at the Church.
We were warned by Christ.that there will be false bethren among the members of the Church. We must remember this, and not lose faith in the Church and instead pray for these men that have caused harm in order for them to mend their ways and no longer do damage to those that are innocent. Remember that it is not these preists who have sinned greatly who constitute the essence of the Church, its the Holy Trinity, Our Mother, and our Sacraments. I will not leave the Church on account of other's actions, and the only ones I am dissapointed in are those specific preists, and still I try to remember something a preist said " Hate the sin, not the sinner"
My faith in Catholic doctrine is as strong as ever; however, I have dumped any recognition of authority from Rome, particularly from this Pope. He definitely knew what was going on. He was elected by Cardinals all of whom owed him their promotions. He also rewarded Cardinal Law with palatial living quarters in Rome when we ran the scoundral out of Boston. Yes, he should be held accountable. He will never resign; therefore the public throughout the world should do as I do and withhold donating any money to the Church. The $ really affects them when it starts to infringe upon their lavish lifestyles.
What frustrates me most of all this conversation has been touched on briefly and I'd like to expand upon it.
The only faith that the media covers extensively in a negative light is Catholicism. Apparently it is still the only faith that media can decry and be anti about publicly and very loudly. And more importantly, when the media covers the Catholic faith, it is almost always about scandal.. of a minority. The priests who have come to light as molesters and pedophiles are a MINORITY. There are well over 400,000 priests. The good that these priests, as well as nuns/sisters and brothers in religious communities is almost always ignored (Oprah's segment on nuns and the coverage of Mother Theresa I acknowledge, but again, even that is rare.)
My faith is unshaken. People are not perfect. We are taught to love the sinner and hate the sin. Yes these priests should be punished. But my Catholic faith is not built on a priest who committed a sin, but rather the tradition of my faith, Jesus and the way God has shown me throughout my life why Catholicism is my faith, and it will always be. I plan to go to church today, to celebrate Palm Sunday. I pray for those who have been abused, and I pray for the souls of those harmed by the presence of sin in our world. My Catholic faith is strong and unwavering, and I'm almost certain that when pulling quotes from this discussion, there will be a highlight of the anti-Catholic, or this has shaken my faith and those of us that still believe in our faith will be left to the wayside or edited to non-recognition.
I'm an American living in Italy, I decided a long time ago that while I consider myself Roman Catholic I do //NOT// buy into the rhetoric that God speaks and acts through the Pope, let alone that priests and other church politicians (I mean clergy) up the political and corporate church ladder are in general, any example to be followed by the faithful. I believe in: Baptism, Communion, marriage, resurrection/judgment of the dead and the forgiveness of sins by God, but not in the obligation to go to a church confession to confess before a priest who potentially may be a greater sinner than myself! I will pray while walking in a park, forest, beach, whatever, in what I consider any of God's most beautiful churches (nature) and sincerely ask for forgiveness and guidance from God. Some may say that being Catholic means you can't pick and choose what rules/beliefs you will follow, I don't agree. The Church (other religions are not innocent of this either!) has long changed the rules to suit themselves, I don't see what makes them special.
My Roman Catholic Faith is Not based on the figure of the priests, the bishops or the pope. It's based on the founder of this Church which is Jesus Christ. I do believe anyone truly PROVEN guilty of having committed a crime against children or anyone else should definately face justice and be punished for it. But it also upsets me most how so many people will do whatever to try discredit, defame and destroy the Catholic Church in any way possible. Enemies of the Church love these kind of oportunities. How come nothing is said ever about the millions of the vast mayority of priests around the globe that are good and Holy.
Though I am a protestant, I was raised under a Roman Catholic environment during my formative years and have always been interested in the affairs of the Catholic Church. First of all, Christianity was developed from the death of a young Jewish man named Jesus. The message was brought over a span of a continent to impact the very heart of Rome by a group of former Jewish fishermen.
Faith in the scriptures, is the substance of things hoped for. Faith is also a gift from God, it has never originated from the mind of mortal men, for faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Without Jesus, who spoke his words and displayed his sacrifice for love sake, there will never be any faith, much less Catholicism, Protestantism or Christianity in general.
Let us get back to the fundamentals of Christianity. The popes never died for our sins, they did not heal the sick with their own might, nor did any priest, parish, vicars, bishops, archbishops, tele evangelists etc......
Faith of the believer has fundamentally been on Jesus Christ. The workings of his miracles, the words he spoke, the acts he did out of love. These are the basis of all Christianity and a mature Christian would be unswayed by Church politics for what is most important for a believer, is the good opinion of God of which He has on his people.
Now, in regards to the scandals, is there anyone in this world who is without sin? If the person is in ministry and has repeatedly committed error, then he must be left out of ministry until he is changed by the word of God and by the knowledge of truth and Virtue through Jesus our Lord. Have we not read the bible? Where sin abounds, grace much more abounds. When there is lack and needs change or improvement, God's mercy is there to change that situation, to redeem the individual or the organization. Discipline the fallen Christian with the word of God and not by the principles of worldly measures, that way, Christianity will continue to progress in the direction of the Word of God.
When Science gave us the AK-47 I didn't give up on science, and now that the church has done this I'm sad and angry but I won't give up on my Christian faith. The Church is only an institution, my religion is the teachings from God.
If people have faith in an institution like the RCC, then of course their faith must be shaken.
If they have in God, an institution's failure will not matter.
Many of us are saying that it not the church at fault, it is the imperfect men in it. Isn't this like saying it's not the tree, it's only the fruit? Did not Jesus himself say the trees not producing fine fruit would be cut down and thrown into the fire? And then later he said some thing like, 'a good tree cannot produce bad fruit.' There can always be a couple bad apples, but these reports are astounding in their quantity.
Once again the Catholic Church should allow women to be leaders and the men should take the backseat. If the Catholic Church had allowed women to be leaders from the very beginning I can almost guarantee you we will not be setting here discussing the sexual abuse of innocent children. Religion has nothing to do with the sexual abuse. Christianity tech us to be kind and loving toward people and our environment. The church leaders should be held responsible for concealing the sexual abuse. The sexual abuse it is done by men not the church or the religion.
Yes, when I heard all these stories, I was shocked and disappointed. But then I thought this is not religion. I have never thought of religion from a perspective of a priest or a bishop. Christianity is more self fulfilling and more idealistic. It is a way of life that brings hope and happiness, at least for me and the faithful people I know.
I was raised and educated like many other Catholics in the 50s, by wonderful nuns and priests. I was never touched or abused. I never had a nun bring out a ruler and whack my knuckles and never saw it occur during my 12 years in Catholic school. The discipline, mutual respect and love was always present, and I thank God for my upbringing.
However, the present scandal is sickening. I do believe this Pope should resign. I ask CNN to provide a simple poll – Yes or No, should Pope Benedict resign?
Thank goodness the Catholic Church will soon be destroyed by the militaries of the united nations along with all other disgusting religions that have killed and abused people through abuse and getting involved in war. I personally long for the day when the churches are being burned to the ground by the U.N.
My heart goes out to those hurt by those whom they should be able to trust; especially that this happened in the church, God's hands, feet, and voice in the world. But it takes those inside the church to fully appreciate the war that is fought spiritually for every Christian that tries to live a holy life. Why is there such hypocrisy? Why so many who have fallen? Because the Devil opposes, and no one, not even priests or the pope are immune to sin and temptation. I think Catholic priests are especially vulnerable due to their isolation from physical affection. This would never shake my faith; my faith is based on the perfection of Christ and what he did and said; not on the imperfection of His creatures.
The Catholic Church – The Vatican – The Priests, since the beginning of organized religion the Vatican has been accused of many things and some have been true and some false.
When are people going to realize that regardless of Religion – this happens every day – there are sick people in the world and it coming from the Church is only another exposure that no matter where you are or who you are connected to. It happens......
Coming from the Church which millions of people follow – is disgusting and if the Pope knew of a cover up then what does it say about Catholic church and their morals.
Anyone interested in this topic should view the Sam Harris presentation at Ted.com: http://www.ted.com/talks/sam_harris_science_can_show_what_s_right.html
The Press has been talking quite a lot about pedophile priests, which is quite a good selling argument. Yet, the fact that most abuses have taken place in schools "run by the Catholic Church" does not imply that all – or even most of – the abuses were committed by priests rather than laypeople. Nor is it proved that such abuses occur more often within the Catholic Church than in public schools, for example, as seems to be insinuated.
This does not change a thing to the fact that when such things happen within the Catholic Church, which is one of the very last moral references of the Western World, the harm caused is very great indeed.
This denial makes perfect sense from the organization that considers an unborn fetus sacrosanct but no amount of innocent lives ruined is worth even defrocking one of their own.
I consider the irony of the Pope spending eternity in hell.
What we need to do right now is pray for the Church instead of judging these people. The Church is finally acknowledging these horrible sins, and is going to clean house. In this time of Easter we have to hope that this will be a resurrection of the churches trust. Just because there are pedophile priests does not make the doctrine false. St. John Christendom wrote about how the pagans would justify not converting to Christianity because there was wicked priests. Through all denominations this is a problem. It is not two wrongs make a right. But we must go by "he who is without sin cast the first stone". These are horrible things that some people in the Church have done, and we must pray for them.
WOW look at all the comments, strong subject
1. the question is not human weakness rather how does the church react; record: bad.
2. has the Catholic church reacted differently than other religions, Islam is know for its sexual missteps (altough no one dares to say anything). record: all false relgion.
3 does a religions course affect a person's faith, belief is personal relationship to God, but if he remains to a religion which is obviously false what kind of relationship can he have with God?
the real question is: which is the true religion?
One of the greatest comeback lines in history was uttered two hundred years ago. As his armies were swallowing up the countries of Europe, French emperor Napoleon is reported to have said to Church officials, "Je détruirai votre église" ("I will destroy your Church")." When informed of the emperor's words, Ercole Cardinal Consalvi, one of the great statesmen of the papal court, replied, "He will never succeed. We have not managed to do it ourselves!" If bad popes, immoral priests, and countless sinners in the Church hadn't succeeded in destroying the Church from within, Cardinal Consalvi was saying, how did Napoleon think he was going to do it from without? The gates of hell will never prevail against the Catholic Church.
Judas betrayed Christ to death. Anybody can become a Judas and betray Christ. The rest of the Apostles did not give up their faith because of the sins of another. "Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone." There are a lot of Judas but also a lot of Pharisees around using the excuse of bad priest for their own immoral lives....abortion, homosexuality, contraception, adultery, ..........
This scandal has nothing to do with celibacy. Why have their been so many children sexually abused by their own parents? Why are there abuses of married Anglican clergy, married teachers... why are the majority of people who go to places like Thailand to abuse children married?
My thoughts reading Pat's post (March 25th, 2010 2210 GMT) are twofold. First, this is not a liberal-versus-conservative issue and there is no need to bring politics into this discussion.
Second, Pat apparently would fill the ranks of the Catholic clergy with straight, single men who choose celibacy. Even if it were possible to categorize and screen something that is so innately not black-and-white as human sexuality, the church would find itself vastly understaffed if it were to succeed. So Pat's Catholic church would likely become a much smaller branch of Christianity in the process.
The church is made up of human beings. A friend once said to me, only Christ will never disappoint you or let you down, and as a Catholic I have found this to be true. I am saddened, but not surprised, by what has come out in recent weeks.
Personally I was very deeply moved by the Pope's letter to the Irish faithful, and found it a huge shift from past policies and pronouncements. I hope with all my heart that concrete action will be taken in future, as has been promised to us now, to protect the faithful from the few 'bad apples' serving among many devoted and honorable pastors of Christ's flock.
I believe that part of this trouble was caused by the excessively liberal opinons of some Catholic theologians who distort the teachings of Vatican II. Yet certainly we Catholics must work hard to clear up these abuses just as we must spend money to educate the public against abortion. Remember, however, that people, including the clergy, also have rights of privacy that must also be observed and that Jesus ordered us "to forgrive not just seven times but seventy." But this right of privacy, just as it does not extend to covering up sex crimes, does not extend to abortion because that violates the babies right to life
i am a cradle catholic and my parents too. but from the start or should i say, since i have been to understand right and wrong, my parents never shielded me from the reality, that is, priests are human and make mistakes. my father, who was a working student and a priest scholar, even told me he drove one priest one time eloping with his girlfriend. but his being catholic never diminished.
What the Vatican does not want you to know:
I find it entirely ironic that it appears that the hands of God are revealing the depth, horrific corruption and criminal cover-up's by the Pope and the Vatican for many decades in regards to sex abuse of children by the clergy. And the Vatican exorcists are blaming this wave of exposure on the 'devil'.
What the Vatican does not want you to know is that to the layperson learning these long lasting sexual abuse horrors, is that Pope Ratz is the least qualified person to ever be placed into a position as a religious figurehead.
HOWEVER, to numerous dark and nefarious branches within the Vatican and outside of the Vatican, Cardinal Ratz's improper actions and corruption were well known. They pressured his fellow Cardinals to vote for Cardinal Ratz to be the next Pope. WHY? Because those dark and nefarious branches in the Vatican and outside of the Vatican could easily coerce and extort Pope Ratz to not block nor disrupt their dark and nefarious activity's. Pope Ratz's prior corruption and improper actions when he repeatedly blocked judicial actions on multiple clergy who were found to be serial pedophiles made him their ideal choice.
Any Papal disclosure of Vatican agency's involvement with Money Laundering, Drug Smuggling or Child Slavery would immediately be met with the disclosure of all of Cardinal Ratz's past misdeeds.
Now that Pope Ratz has been outed, will he publicly reveal the nefarious dark agency's activity's in the Vatican and work to permanently remove them, or is he too filled with further corruption to do what a Pope should have done within the Vatican for decades?
I saw enough as a young boy of 8 years of age to take down the National Geographic map of the world and on that map pinpoint all the religions that there have ever been in chronological order.
My conclusion then as it is now is that We humans invented god(s) not the other way around.
We humans have a fear of death yet we persisit in allowing our superb minds to negate the fact that we are the god(s) and have been ever since the first humanoid -ape stood up on its hind legs after climbing out of the trees.
All religion is,is a load of human excretia.
As a young Catholic, I am of course very offended by the individual actions of the priests in the abuse scandals. However, we cannot blame an entire institution for the actions of individuals. The Catholic Church itself is a holy institution, and stands for a much greater good.
CALL THE HOLY SPIRIT... TO Congress...TO Pope Benedict XVI...TO my people...Can Christ's forgiveness of sins and the sins?..
I love Paradise Kingdom of Heaven Those pure spirits I love all that is sacred All that is sacred I am the Holy Spirit Defending my Spirit From that world of pure Because the original And speak on behalf of For all religions Christ's forgiveness of sins and the sins?
Yes They wanted the Jews The stoning of adulterous Jesus said to them
Of you without sin Stoned whore Faragawa And Jesus said to her go Your sins are forgiven O man The crucifixion of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins But you are signed in sin Lawsuits against the Vatican Against the holy Pope acted wisely
When the cover-up Pope walk in the path of Christ Forgive sins Give a chance To start again Because people will lose Spiritual meaning Of the Christian religion Will not feel safe This gives the opportunity Evil, to reach out To the Vatican Some waiting for the opportunity wants change change Pope How strange to allow itself Harming Whatever is sacred Vatican is a court Single Governance On such issues Raise your hand Before becoming Evil power Do not persist in the error Do not mess with the sacred Because it is the balance of Principles and values Are light Which instructs all stray There are solutions to eliminate these defects Biological...
Daughter of Ms.OPRAH WINFREY Mother Angels
Now we know what these priests mean by "suffer little children unto me"!!
RC is the Rock of faith .. it will remain as the rock. Evil will always try hard through black sheep. We believe in United Church where God is the pivotal.
what happen was shameful, but faith should lead the way evil must be defeated, it can only be defeated through unshakable faith.
Be faithful in difficult times. its time to be united under God. Evil is trying to attack on The Rock.it knows RC Church is the rock of faith, unite under church
May Good lord bless and guide our Church and our Pope
God will make the way
I served as an assistant to the celebrations of the church and as a child. I was attacked by a monck, who tried to rape me. I fled from the convent and a little later I was dancing on the tunes of the `Beatles and especially the Rolling Stones" (my secret favorites) and faked, made believe my parents to attent the churches ceremonies, while being with friends. Since i just felt disgust with the Catholic Chiurch and its crimes in the present and history.
The Catholic Church is unshakable,this kind of so called scandal is existing in every part of the society today not only in the Catholic Church...look around your work place you will find one.
So,my faith cannot be touched,we as Catholics believe in Christ Jesus not human being and we respect our Pope He is doing a good work.
A Vatican official was asked that this week if allowing priests to marry would solve the problem. He said, “That’s ridiculous, you can’t marry an eight-year-old.”
– Bill Maher in his opening monologue
My faith is not shaken, my belief in the One true God, in Jesus as Savior, is not shaken. He is the truth, the light, and the Way.
My willingness to place my charity donations, my fiscal offerings, into the hands of the local bishop – over and done with. In the past, they used it to pay off claims, keep accusers quiet and shield violators.
All justified by wanting to protect the image of the church.
My charity goes directly to those who are spreading the gospel through their good works.
As a person who was Catholic, who has over 12 years in the Catholic education system, and who has studied Catholic history and catechism let me just say...duh!
The church has a prevelant background in molestation, rape, murder, and abuses of faith that goes back to the Dark Ages yet you still can't believe it when stuff like this happens?
All organized religion is organized for that reason; to control and abuse. God is not religion. God is not the Pope no matter what they tell you. He is not infallible, only God is.
The Church is far more than any pope, bishop, or priest. In catholic church, we are taught to follow christ's footsteps and not the priest, bishop, or pope. Our leaders are humans. "To err is human, to forgive is divine". Any human being is subject to sin, but God forgives.
I can never leave my church and faith because of this scandal, having known that it is the devil's plan to distabilise a unique entity. They will not succeed with this. The catholic church is of christ and it will remain unique forever, Amen.
I never had faith in the Catholic Church of Satan! How do I know it´s the Church of Satan? Matt 5:39 "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." It´s Christians "tolerance" of evil which has allowed corruption and evil to take over in this world. Who can deny this, that has eyes to see? This world is run by the most corrupt and evil people and secret societies like the Freemasons that worship Satan!
Christians and Catholics have no idea that they have been duped into worshiping Lucifer, the Morning Star, in the person of Jesus "The Christ"(anointed one), who is also, the morning star, in the Bible! Of course, they have changed the interpretation in recent translations, but those who "have eyes can see" the truth of it all!
Look at the leagacy of Catholic & Christian Churches: Worship of false Idols, graven images, corruption at all levels, molesting children for literally centuries, and "tolerating" evil of all sorts. Why? Because all mainstream Churches, synagogues and Mosques & Temples are under the influence of a very REAL Satanic hierarchy that rules over this world. Just read the "Book of Enoch" and other books taken out of the Bible and you will see that fallen angels have ruled this world and are bringing about a global gov´t under their leader Lucifer, Satan! Don´t be fooled, this is no joke! email@example.com for more info...
Bill CLINTON didn't resign!
After years passed in Catholic institutions i never saw sexual abuses and homosexuality...
I know that the gay lobby is very active and angry against the Catholic church... Anyway, like it or not, sodomy is still an outrage and a sin as opposed to nature, reason, and God's will as expressed in the Bible.
So liberals deal with your lack of moral principles and try to be more consistent
I doubt this will be posted however, it's a true fact that will never be acknowledged by the church or the media because it happened to American Indian children and to you folks whatever happened to them is manifest destiny. The forced removal of Indian children in the late 1800's to the 1960's was accepted under the "kill the Indian and save the man" policy of North America. The residential boarding schools throughout the USA and Canada were the legal genocide of children from approx. 5 years of age to the teen years. I say this because it is documented that in Canada alone 100,000 children were into these hell holes and 50, 000 were never accounted for. Mass grave sites are known and the Vatican is well aware and has been asked many times to return these little ones to be given proper burial at home as well as finally bringing relief to still grieving families and tribes. It has also been acknowledged by your Pope and all he says is he's sorry. In fact there are Native people in Rome right now who are scheduled to meet with various church officials to ask once again to return the little ones for proper burial. The horrors that happened to them is unthinkable and if there is any care for the truth check out Hidden from History.com. All this was done by priests and nuns spreading the word of God. I DON'T THINK SO.
Just as Islam is more than just storylines on terrorists and Buddhism is more than stories on financially scheming monks ( they've made the headlines here in Asia recently ) – so too is the Catholic faith more than a faith represented by priests that abuse their power and molest minors.
Dont be mistaken , this by no means lessens the despicable crinimal acts they have commited – but I resent the representation that those that seek to commit these heinous acts, are suddenly an accurate representation of lay Catholics and religious everywhere.
As a Catholic, there is only shame and disappointment to describe how it feels to have leaders of of your faith abuse their positions. While I see the acts of the human church seperate from my Catholic beliefs, this does not negate the need for the Vatican to seriously relook why they do not report these criminal acts to the relavant authorities.
This did not just happen in America and Europe.Me and 8 others who were horrendously abused by our parish priest in Australia spanning from 1950 to the early eighties.We finally got him to court in 1996 and he ended receiving 8 years.I have no problems with the catholic churches teaching involving scripture but have a huge problem with the basic denials from John Paul 11 to Ratzinger.Remember the fish smells from the head down.I was accused of trying to harm the church by going to the police and the main reason i did it was to try and make sure no other child would have to go through what sadist sexual pratices he put me through from 9 year to 13 years old.Maybe things will change but i think i am up against extremely arrogant people and cannot see anything going to fast.All i know is the Almighty will be the final judge of the time we had on this earth and no matter what creed or religion we are all just mere mortals on this earth.I do not think God distinguishs between men dressed in funny hats and robes and the normal folk although i sometimes get the impression they are greater than our creator
Why "the Vatican" or Bishops should have report alleged cases of abuse if there were no judicial complaints?
They tried to deal , bad or well (?), with these "cases".
BTW many commentators are not catholics neither christians or theists and only spouting old anti-religious and specially anti-christian prejudices/ ignorance.
The question was: " What has the abuse scandal done to you as a Catholic?"......
As about celibacy of priests it is not a dogma but it has rich and profound senses. It can be understood as a deliberate gift of love and sacrifice for love. Because real love,as shown by J.Christ, is not limited to rough and fast sex, seduction and also to reproduction.
I know that this is hard to believe by "liberal" minds brainwashed by TV
and advertising which want you to be stupid consumers obeying to the messages relentlessly and powerfully sent.
The liberal rough dogma implies that the world and "nature" is all good. That's why ,according to that "dogma", no moral or mental effort and then no pain is needed to improve oneself. Civilization improvements and progress don't exist the past is bad/evil and only present counts. Amnesia is allright and we can spend our days wathching TV and swallowing everything from it like the myth of the innocence of origins and primitive ,native , people following their impulses....
I was raised Episcopalian, and converted-twice!! The Church is an anchor of stability. The Church is inherently good. There are some bad priests, way to many. I believe in "one and done" for substantiated abuse. However, priests seem have no form of due process. In the USA, priests can be one call away from ruination.
The Church needs to reform, and let married men and women be ordained.I guess I'm a typical 'smorgasboard" Catholic. But, my conscience is well formed, and your conscience is the final authority. The sex abuse scandal has not dampened my faith or loyalty, but I am angry at the wayward Priests. All diocesan Bishopss and the Holy See need to air the dirty laundry so to speak, but only of substantiated cases, not allegations not proven.
Sexual abuse by priests is something that dates back to the middle ages. The curch has never been concerned with the punishment of those who committed such abuses and will never be. What the pope and bishops say, as "feeling shame" is shear hipocrisy. Which country in the world will have the political will and the guts to lock up these criminals? I doubt it.
The abuse of children by Catholic priests, the denial by multiple Popes, bishops, etc. plus other similar scandals has actually increased my faith in my religion. I'm a Taoist.
Why would this scandal make us loose faith as long as you believe in Jesus and his word?
The first church was the home of a person where 2 or more come together and pray.
My faith is in God, not in church. People will always disappoint, but God never will. He's faithful.
The scandal has not affected my faith in Catholicism negatively. However, the church needs to take issues of spirituality of priests very seriously.
It seems to me that in the Western World/developed countries, priesthood is taken as just any other profession not really a calling from God. This makes priests to see themselves as teachers or doctors, engineers, etc. But really they are more than any of these. They are teachers, doctors, engineers combined plus spiritual mentors and guides.
In the third world countries, some people take priesthood as an "escape from poverty". That is why you see pretenders in the "vineyard of the Lord".
Now is the time for a spiritual rebirth of the priesthood. Flush out all pretenders and subject serving and intending priest to proper scrutiny.
MY FAITH IN THE CHURCH REMAINS STRONG!
Everyone who has been involved in covering up a crime should be tried, even Ratzinger, and they should all get a custodial punishment. What arrogance to put the church's image before the welfare of children! This is reminiscent of medieval practices and should be condemned by all. I was raised a Catholic and am utterly ashamed of this man's behaviour. He should be deposed if the allegations are proven to be true. Shame, shame on the Catholic Church.
The religion of Catholicism has been gathered after
man's lusts as in warned about in scripture. 2 Timothy 4:1-4
While there are born again Catholics, God not only desires
to save mankind but for mankind to walk in truth. Sexual abuse
is just 1 problem of many in this religion that America's Evangelicals
compromise truth with.
Pray for an awakening and that the Pope and Catholic priests can
be brought to repentance and renounce the heresies they promote.
When Paul teaches that leaders can either be married or single,
1 Timothy 3, Titus 1, 1 Cor 7, it looks foolish for leadership to
keep this as a discipline. This is 1 reason enough to not desire
to be a Catholic if you are called to be a Christian pastor.
The time is right to leave the path of religion for all who care about reality more than about the fake convenience of "knowing enough" about everything. The gap between the myth and the physical world is getting so wide, that the mind of the new generations might not comprehend with it. The brain damage could be permanent and severe in the form of duality of minds. Pay this price for the well being of the church is too cruel. We have no right to predetermine the life of those unborn, honest and innocent children with framing them in advance. The curch would support this idea, if they would be as good as they supposed to be, but they won't because for them their institution comes first.
No, my faith is not shaken. The scandals have shaken me though because the pain that the victims and their families have gone through is unimaginable. A priest should be someone you trust & not someone you fear. It is not right that such scandals were swept under the carpet.They should have been dealt with right there and then. But let us not generalize and say that all priests are the same, because it is not true. Calling for the Pope to resign is not correct either. As a Catholic I believe that I need him to be the leader right now more than ever. I believe that the Catholic Church should include special prayers for the victims and their families in all the Masses and prayer meetings. This way we show them our solidarity and our support. And I hope and pray that the Church takes up tough measures to prevent this from happening again.
I agree Gabriel N. I returned to the Church after many years away. The Catholic Church is the gift Our Lord gave us. Yes, this issue must be addressed but the media, militant secularists and other anti-Catholics need to check their facts first. I am certainly looking forward to the Pope's visit to Scotland this September.
Happy Easter to all!
This is an extremely pervasive evil. Dallas News reporters in their research concluded that two thirds of Bishops in the United state are likely to have covered up Sex abuse of children in the church. This is a global pandemic of institutional moral corruption of the greatest form
Anyone who calls themselves Catholic must either be very ignorant on the subject or condone sexual abuse of children. With 2 thousand years of guilt fear and shame perpetrated on humanity it is no wonder the scope of blind loyalty to such an authoritarian inhumane church has reached such pathetic proportions. i say lock the Pope up.
Christian religion was always about power, influence, abuse and interests. Everyone was afraid until now to point out the dark side of it. It's sick. I hope God will punish every religious leader that used it's position in some other purposes (money, influence, child sex, rape). It's a paradox : representing a God that is believed you serve and at the same time doing things that will upset him. These men should be those who fear God the most. That is the paradox. In time christian leaders summed did worse things than the Nazis. Think about that. It's basic math if you take your world history book. It's a shame for all religions. We're all sick and we've all seen pretty bad things across the Planet. Christians will still manipulate the world and they will still cover up their dark side. Such as people who use religion to fight wars, Christians like this are a shame to Human kind. We deserve any Apocalypse. We don't respect the basics of religions : be good, share and don't kill. It's simple. But for humans it's hard. They had enough time on Earth to prove any God wrong.
As a cradle Catholic, I left the Church 3 years ago (not without picketing my own parish) when I saw how priests abuse their own staff members
and take away their jobs, for speaking up. It's true, their bosses (the Bishops) have their back. Instead of making things right with victims, Bishops support the actions of their priests. Speaking up in the Catholic Church is still seen as a threat to the entire Institution.Priests are trained to actively seek out and destroy what they consider, any pockets of power within their parish.
I am not surprised that the CNN has shown so much bias in their coverage of the child molestation scandal in the catholic church. Since the advent of Pope Benedict XVI, CNN has been waging war on the Pope and Catholic faith. As a catholic, I am very worried about these scandals that would not go away, but my faith remains unshaken not even by the efforts of CNN to weaken church by their persistent attacks. History have shown that those who had tried to run down the Catholic Church end in disgrace themselves. I will remain a Catholic for ever.
I will soon be baptized into the Catholic Church. I am not simply a former Baptist from the Bible Belt, but also an ex-pat, having lived in Spain for more than 30 years. I chose Spain over the States, but a number of spiritual factors chose the Church for me.
I do have faith that the Pope will take the right steps to correct the injustices that have taken place. In fact, religion itself is based on faith.
It's not just the Catholic Church. All religions are flawed and irelevant. The only problem is the majority of the population still needs to evolve, just that little bit more to realise it.
It's both tragic and fascinating to watch the Church circling the wagons around the Pope, who as Cardinal Ratzinger, the ultimate Papal political insider, was for many years in charge of the Vatican department that was most responsible for the Papal policy of abuse coverups.. How extraordinarily disingenuous of the Church, (and how typical), to claim that the Pope's hands are clean when in fact there was no one in the Vatican more responsible for the coverup than the Pope Himself, "God's representative on Earth." If the Vatican truly "purged" itself of everyone responsible for the abuse/coverup, would there be anyone left to steer the Church into its new incarnation? Where are the reformers? Where are the courageous? Do they stand a chance against centuries of inbred self preservation? I think we will see a major implosion in the Church before the end of the year. I think the Pope's role in the abuse coverup will be exposed and that he will be forced to step down. What the Church hierarchy does next, whether they go into business as usual/damage control mode or emerge from the rubble reborn as an accessible, interactive organization that chooses people over dogma remains to be seen.
The latest scandals didn't damage my "faith", because I didn't have any. All it's done is confirm the wisdom of my decision to divorce myself from churches many many years ago.
After reading Sinead O’Conner’s piece in the Washington Post titled, The pope’s apology in Ireland seems hollow. I remembered back when I was twenty five and cracking my Sinead O’Conner CD over my knee. I was angry at her act that I had just watched live on Saturday Night Live. On this episode of SNL she ripped up a picture of Pope John Paul II and sang a song of war against hatred and abuse.
After her action on SNL I felt I hated her. I didn’t even want to listen to her music but now looking back on it, knowing now she too was a victim of the industrial schools of Ireland, now knowing that child abuse in many forms was happening and being covered up by the Vatican throughout the history of the church. I see now that it was people like me that were turning a blind eye towards the abuse because I was raised to have blind faith. I was raised to protect and remain a part of the church at all cost or suffer the consequences of a place called hell.
I guess I can go on and on but why bother. I’ll just cut to the chase.
To: Ms. Sinead O’Conner
If you should ever read this, my apologies, as I am sorry for hating you for a long time in my life. I am sorry for being so blind and deaf to what you were trying to tell us. I guess some things had to just take some time to figure out. And I thank you now from the bottom of my Wounded Healer heart.
Peace is finding… that’s all it is.
I cherish you... Thanks.
I dont go to church anymore.Nobody should.All religions are corrupt,this been going on for ever,evrybody in the church knew it including the pope.Religions are the problems of the world,
It did not take the present scandals for me to discover and believe that the physical face of the Roman Catholic Church, no more than the physical face of many other churches acting in Jesus' name, has nothing to do with the Gospel which Jesus left to his group of outcasts over 2000 years ago. In fact by being disconnected from the reality of the poor of this world, it has put itself in a position where it is often impossible for it to fulfil its mission which is to reveal the true dignity of all humans as brothers and sisters sharing the riches of God's blessings on this earth as a foretaste of the life to come. Too often the face of the Roman Catholic Church, as well as its system of administration and teaching reflects more the trappings and pomposity of Nero's roman empire. Its lack of democracy and its hierarchical structures denies the local community even the right to allow the Gospel throw Its light on the everyday reality of the members.
The role of the Church is to be prophetical – to be a prophet – to be Jesus – to push us all to change, to create a more humane world for all and to condemn injustice and inequality whereever these evils show their face.
As a Catholic and ex-priest, I have long believed this. This is my Faith which, by the way, revealed itself to me while reflecting and praying with the poor of South America.
If now, the awful suffering of the victims of clerical sexual abuse and the shock of discovering how the institutional churches put the saving of their own good name above the needs of justice, can shake us all into a new reality, a new church, a community in every place and time showing Jesus' true face of mercy and compassion to the weakest, poorest, most abandoned and neglected by society, then, at least their suffering will not have been in vain. Will it happen?
There is no question of anyone leaving the Catholic church or one's faith being weakened by the abuses. The Catholic church has had its fair share of scandals in the past but it has always emerged stronger.
I am a practising Catholic and for sure am disgusted by the way the Church has gone about protecting errant priests. In my view they should all be tried and sent to prison. The victims should be compensated and apologized to and maybe rehabilitated. In the future even a minor allegation should be forwaded to the local police and not a cardinal or bishop.
The Pope and the church have got to change this law of celibacy which forbids priests and other clergy not to marry. Sex is a human need and not everyone can cope with strong sexual desires. Obviously children are the victims when priests cannot find any other outlet. This has got to change soon.
In my view the Catholic church should come out with all its dirty linen now and cleanse itself once and and for all.
The Vatican covered-up child moletation by priests, covered-up HIV/AIDS problems with priests, and reportedly blatant homosexuality in the priesthood runs rampant.
Are you sure we are dealing with God's church or maybe a male singles sex cult.
Perhaps the Catholic Church is beginning to see the problems that the Protestants saw about 600 years ago.
The Roman Church's history reads like a track record of materialistic pursuits and a quest for power on earth (sadly true for most institutionalized, religious bodies).
I agree with many postings that this abuse scandal is just the tip of the ice berg and that where there is unchecked power, there is often abuse.
The problem is not just abuse of dependents, its really a much larger, systemic fault, and its deeply ingrained in this institution.
What we have is a power mechanism with little regard for children, nor adults for that matter. We have a fallen angel that still claims to represent God on Earth, when in fact the apostles would hardly recognize their original teachings in the overall monstrosity of what this institution has become.
In order for the Church to reclaim this monopoly on representing God, it would have to completely reinvent itself. But I very much doubt it will be capable of doing so, because the institution has become a microcosm of its own design whose major concern is not anymore the Word of God. The only serious attempt ever undertaken was the counter reformation movement following the concilium at Tridentum, and it eventually failed, perhaps because (a) the Church did not fully acknowledge that the protestants had a point and (b) the Church wasn't able to turn the tank and adjust as required.
Now we have a few thousand Christian churches, some older than the Roman Church. Some consider themselves catholic in the real, Greek meaning of the word, fewer still practice the Apostolic Succession, and almost none recognize the Sancta Sedes as their spiritual leader.
Born into a catholic family and having enjoyed a fairly religious upbringing, I still need to ask the following: Does one need an institution such as the Roman Church in order to live one's faith / believe in God?
As a former catholic survivor of abuse here in Ireland what I find hard to believe is that the bigots at the top of this church managed to keep things under the carpet for so long. Were the police and civil authorities in the many, many jurisdictions where children were being abused comatose? Blind ? dead?
While the anger against the church for its betrayal is totally understandable it is important to understand that there are many good, decent men and women in that organization that are doing the best to administer moral and spiritual guidance to a increasingly cynical and disbelieving flock . That whole church needs an overhaul from top to bottom staring with allowing women to become priests and importantly , allowing priests to marry. All this nonsence about celibacy is unnatural . Priests are human and have the same needs as the rest of us....
I am not a Catholic but I think SRAmbrose put my thoughts into words quite well. It is shortsighted to blame an ancient faith for the poor management of the its human leadership. Maybe we should question the doctrines of infallibility of the Pope and Celibacy of its priests. Neither of those are in the Bible anyways. Maybe at this juncture it would also be good to remember the countless acts of selfless service of Catholic priests and nuns. Most of our schools, universities, hospitals,and modern social work had their beginnings thanks to them.
It helps to keep things in perspective.
We all seem to forget one thing: that wars have been waged against the Church since the time of Christ. And what more now being the season of Lent and Holy Week reminds us what Christ and the Church suffered. Judas was part of the apostles but he plotted and betrayed Christ. End of Judas did not bring end of betrayers. The Church will see these and Christ knew this and that is why He swore that the gate of hell will never overcome the Church. Satan goes for the soul of the Church (its clergy) and uses a few of them to smear the Church. This does not in any way diminish or affect the salvific role of the Church because it is the body of Christ.
If others show ignorant of this we the Catholics should not or we become an instrument by which the devil fights to bring the Church down. The media could have a field day, they do not do that because of their love for the “victims” or the Church but part of the same struggle against the Church and parochial interests.
May God always be with his Church.
I think the Catholic Church is finished :)
why is the media always reporting on abuses by priests of the catholic church? aern't there any such cases by senior figures of other religons like imams of Islam ans monks and rabbai of the temples? media needs to dig into that and report.
Here's a few thoughts for:
1) Those of you who are sticking with a church that has taught false doctrines since it's inception, i.e. Trinity, Hellfire, Celibacy, abstaining from certain foods, Idol worship, and the list goes on: Please wake up. The catholic church along with all other false religions will soon be destroyed by governments of the world under the direction of the United Nations- see Revelation 18: for the proof.
2) Those of you who deny the existance of God: Please use that noggin of yours, the one that "evolved" upon your shoulders. To say that such amazing design as the human body, earth and universe came into existance by chance is ridiculous. Please educate yourself and do the simple math which confirms the impossibility of such a theory. And please stop hiding behind such a theory to avoid accountability to your creator for your actions. Sticking your head in the sand will not stop his purpose to cleanse this earth of all who deny his existence.
3) Those of you who are searching for Truth, since it's obviously not being taught by the catholic church or in the evolution theory: Read the Bible and review archeological evidence and other secular proof of it's being inspired of God. And then do a search of which religion is not only teaching it accurately but successfully living up to it's teachings.
4) Those of you who say that it's only a minority of catholic priests who have abused others sexually: Please do some research and see how many have been convicted in courts, how much money has been paid out by the church to date, and how many confirmed cases are awaiting trial, and how many abused individuals who went to the church many years after their abuse to report the abuse, without intention to receive money-just an appology, and wishful thinking that they could protect other young children, some of whom are being molested by priests as we speak.
Please evaluate the facts honestly.
Dear Padre Donatus, I believe majority are not waging war with the church. Lots of us have benefited from the catholic church (was born a catholic and also went to a catholic nursery and primary sch as well as high school). What people are saying is that the leadership failed followers by covering the atrocities that were being committed against minors and women. S.R.Ambrose has summed it up and i had said it earlier, please the church's leadership should set up a semblance of truth and reconciliation panel to identify and deal with lives destroyed or devastated. Furthermore, it is time the church reviewed the celibacy issue cos God created human beings as sexual beings unless a medication to surpress hormones responsible for sexuality is discovered to ensure that whoever goes into the priesthood is given to as to avoid a repeat of this untold physical, emotional and psychological scar the victims have suffered. No man is a saint, we are all mortal beings!!!!!!!!
This scandal has not shaken my faith, as my faith is not with the church but with God himself. I think we all get a little confused on which is it that gives us our faith. The Catholic's have had many problems in their church for years, the protestants are not free from their scandals and the other religions you just don't hear anything but I am sure they also have their problems. So believe in God and he will take care of all us.
Nothing can shake my believe of the Church,it represent my faith and my believe,what ever happened makes my believe stronger and solid,God allowed the free Will to every one including the Clergy .God love us till the death he gaves us the best example ,never force any one in to the Church, those who used the church for their benefit don't present the Church, they are outsider and they will be outsider for Eternity,every member of the church will be Exam and then only then the true Gold will show ,the Holy Martyr did give their lives not their faith.
An Orthodox Christian
My faith in the Roman Church was shaken many years ago – especially when my children were exposed to a pedophile priest in the Boston area.
The Roman Church talks about natural law. But natural law is that people are sexual and normally married. The emphasis on celibacy was not in the teachings of Christ and sets up an unnatural structure that results in what we see.
I believe that the Roman Church many years ago abandoned the teachings of Christ to focus on the building of an imperial structure and the amassment of material wealth.
That is how I view things.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I am in no way defending those who committed acts of abuse. They deserve the maximum punishment of the law.
However, It's interesting to note the negative perceptions toward the Church in light of recent coverage. Many of these negativities wrongly associate these abuses with celibacy. Those lampooning the Church, many of whom are biased and would do so regardless of whether or not these abuses had taken place, fail to recognize that Marriage does not automatically equal happiness. Our culture tells us that the only way we can be happy is to marry and have sex. However I think the turnover rate of Protestant ministers (nearly 26% in the US) is a perfect indicator that this is not always the case.
In addition, I think the Media needs to be responsible, and show how the Church has changed (especially in the past 20 years) to prevent instances of abuse in the future. Priests, Lay ministers, and others involved in any type of ministry are now required to pass a background check. If they're working with Youth or Seniors, they also need to be fingerprinted.
Finally, the Church has changed the process by which Seminarians are formed. Rather than simply learning Church Dogma, Seminarians undergo a process of intense formation, and are challenged to grow spiritually, pastorally, intellectually, and most importantly (and this is what no one ever speaks about) as a Man in light of Christ. This formation challenges these Men to truly understand their calling to the Priesthood, and discern truthfully.
So please: Don't just lampoon the Church without at least learning the facts. As a Catholic myself, my perception of the importance of the Priesthood has been greatly enhanced because of this "scandal." Even though we are guided by the Holy Spirit, we make mistakes. While many speak of doom and gloom in our Church, this scandal has provided an opportunity to re-evaluate what is important. It has, and will continue, to be wound that requires healing, penance, and prayer. I pray that those affected by these abuses, both directly and indirectly, will use this Holy Week in order to recall the Love of God, and to pray for our Church as we continue this fight against evil.
I love my Church. Some priest have fallen away from their call and sinned, but most are faithful, loyal and good priest. I pray for those who have done wrong, may they repent and find the mercy of God. My faith is in God, not on the members of the Church.
Have pedophiles in US shaken your American citizenship?
Marcus, sorry to disagree with you. It was not the Church that made you a victim. In your heart you do not believe that.
Whose anger are you talking about? And who are the "increasingly cynical and disbelieving flock"??? Speak for yourself and do not talk as if you represent the Church's flock. Suggesting that the things the Church holds sacred are nonsense is beyond the pale. Maybe the Church should go against its teaching to appeal to your political correctness or assuage your angst. Maybe you are Irish but all the abominable things committed by the political leaders or its citizens has not pushed you to suggest maybe Ireland should be less Irish?
No one will praise bad thing but to vilify the Church in this manner bears ominous signs. Maybe because of what happen to you we should all forget the blood of the Lamb, the Saints, the priests and nuns and laity that have exemplified the life of Christ. Please, make your motive known
This is a spiritual battle and each will answer to God whether as a victim or villain.
Church scandals have not shaken my faith. My faith is in God, not the Church, not the priest or pope. The pope, ministers and priests are human, born to make mistakes
Nothing will change until priests no longer are required to have testicles.
This is what is different for the Jewish people. Very RARELY does one hear of a sex scandel in the Jewish community. But one hears often of this abuse going on in the catholic church.
If a leader of the softball team or the Boy Scouts had abused children for years, parents would remove the children right away and have the leaders heads. But...no no no...the catholic church still enjoys Alter boys and girls and Catholics in general are turning a blind eye. 90% of the Catholics here are either denying the truth, pointing out other institutions problems and are defending the pope and his henchmen. Shame on you's...!
No other religion in the history of mankind has murdered, enslaved, abused and oppressed as "THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH".
All you Catholics....quit being blinded and do the research...wake up wake up...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't know how to change my e-mail address to the correct one: firstname.lastname@example.org
First, any acts of sexual abuse are wrong and should be dealth with – that includes ANY religious body, the government and private institutions.
HOWEVER, the media is making claims to smear the Catholic Church with NO factual evidence – the liberal, twisted spin. The handling of sex abuse cases 25+ years ago was uniformly handled differently than today. Psychiatrists recommended placing people who committed these heinous acts back into their environment and the issue was handled internally. Look into this yourself . Also, why isn't it front page news with the ultra-orthodox jewish community was involved with 26 cases of child abuse very recently. Or the rabbi that molested a 7-year old girl 10 years ago in Arizona. Or the protestant ministers, teachers, coaches and family members who abuse at a rate of 10%! BE HONEST!
Whether you're Catholic or not, an honest person would have to see these "news stories" as being an outright attempt to discredit the Church. The pope has been the leading person in putting measures in place in all dioceses whereby EVERY person who work, volunteers, must go through a rigorous background check.
If you want to get the other, TRUE side of the story, check out reliable websites such as the CatholicLeage.com. Thank you.
Agree with PMS. Faith is a communion with GOD and not with His human representatives in Earth.
hey folks , look at the ratio of those affected viz a viz the nearly 2 billion strong Catholic community . I am also beginning to believe that there is a sinister design to destroy the catholic church by raising such issues, having said this i emphatize with the people those who are affected and crying for justice . There may be some black sheep in the clergy but dont blame the pope or the catholic authorities for this indignity. Long live the pope, long live the catholic church the true church of Jesus.
Moses was a prophet. Jesus was a prophet. Mohammed was a prophet. they all got Same message from one God. but Jew and Christian change the message of Moses and the Jesus. Bible is the example of it. in the message of Jesus, there was no mistake. when people made theology then they made the mistake. Bible is full if scientic error. Genesis Chapter 1 is full of scientic error. there was no such thing like TRINITY in the Church within the first 300 years of the disappearing of the Jesus Christ from this world. Vatican made those theology. they punished Gallelio to tell the truth that our earth is in sperical shape. Christian are denying the true God. there is no good eternal life for the non-Muslim.
In Islam, any one will suicide will not go to the heaven. so suicide bomber will not go to the heaven. hell will be the place for them.
Hindu, Buddist, Jews, Christian, Muslim all will agree that only one God created all human being. but one religion is contradicting with the other religion. so it may possible that all religions do not represent the true God or only one religion is representing the true God. which religion is representing the true God? people should use their brain to find it out. to me Islam is the true religion. and Non-Muslims will not go to the heaven. because i could quentions about their religion and their priest can't answer it. Vatican tried to made the Pope as a God.
wise people would consider that depending for the soul is most important then depend for a religion. and they would seek the truth. and would find the true religion which would help them to save their soul from the hell fire. Non-Muslim will be in the hell for ever. in the fire their skin will be burn and new skin will be given that they could taste the torment. and they will ask God to send back again in the earth and they would do what God said to do in the Koran. But God will tell them 'NO'. they lost the opportunity what God gave them to do in their life time in the earth. God gave them brain but they did not use it to find the true God. they follow their preist who deceive them and their forefather who were deceive by the priest.
I dont think Americans can quite grasp the situation that exists here in Ireland. Since independence in 1922 the Catholic Church was the "real Government" and the politicians deferred to the Catholic Church in all matters. The Church ran 97% percent of primary and secondary schools funded exclusively by the state with staff paid for by the state while most social services, child care services, health care and hospitals up to recently were run by Catholic religious orders but paid for by the tax payers. All social legislation was until recently reviewed first by the Catholic Church and only if it approved was it introduced. It was only in the mid 1980s that contraception was legialised after a long battle with the Church and they you could only buy condom's for "bonafide family planning reasons" with a prescription from a Doctor! Divorce was reluctantly introduced in the 1990s – you were required to separated for a minimum of four years and in all cases the first spouse can claim for ever especialy if circumstances change – there is no "clean break". Thousands of Irish men and women were marched into seminaries in their early teens – it was a major status for a family to have a priest, brother or nun in the family and better still more than one!
I work as a social worker in the mental health services and I have lost count of the number of clients I have met that were adult survivors of clerical sex abuse, many from the residential childcare services run espeically but not exclusively by the "Christian Brothers" order. Unfortunately some of these clients have gone on to commit suicide as a result of their experiences. Most are scared for life emotionally, sexually and physically.
The issue here in Ireland is that the Chatholic Church was an extremely conservative, but more importantly, institutional organisation that continuously lectured the people particularly on the evil of sex, even in marriage yet many of its own members were sexually abusing thousands of the most vulnerable members of Irish society – children etc. What the Church did when the complaints were made to it re the behaviour of many of its members was to silence the complainers and transfer the abuser to other areas where they continued their abusive behaviour. The most important thing was to protect the "institution of the Church" and not the most vulnerable of our citizens.
The situation now is that the Church has lost all its authority and standing in the community and its ability to talk openinly on any social or moral issue whether you agree with them or not and many of their seminaries and residential centres are now closed down with just a small handful of men and women in religious training compared to the thousands that existed up to the late 1970s. This may not be a bad thing as the Church will have to rediscover its true Christian purpose and not be focusing on its role of "power enforcer" it once had been. The Church will have to change and become more open and plead for attoinment. Perhaps married clergy and women priests but not under current Vatican personnel. I know many Catholics that have lost their faith and others that have converted to protestant churches as a result of this situation. An interesting footnote – Irish TV was not allowed to broadcast on Good Friday – except for Catholic religious services, at the request of the Church until the late 1970s and then there was "holy war" when RTE started to show secularl programmes on the day!
I have absolutely no idea why scandals done with human hands would rock my faith in Jesus Christ. He didn't do this. People "claiming" to be his reps did. There actions alone show they have little or no relationship with Jesus Christ. Faith based in human beings will always be rocked. Christ is consistent always. Gotta love that Jesus!
These crimes are horrendous and should be punished under our laws and anyone that doesn't report them immediately should be punished as a conspirator.
That said, what the Catholic church needs to do is replace celibate priests with married priests. Having celibate priests was required when we were an agriculture based society and a priest would have to travel days to reach the entire parish and could not provide for a family while away. That no longer makes sense.
As a Catholic, this does not shake my faith because my faith lies in Jesus Christ. What it does do is make me more vocal about changing the priesthood. We already have a shortage of priests. By allowing married priest, you add the stability of family to the role of leader. Win Win.
The offending priests and clergy should be held accountable in the country where the crime has been commited., and tried by the courts of the country. If the church wants to further punish them it is their choice.
as a roman catholic i have given up on the church
This is very shamefull but my faith is untouched. History has shown us that humans are imperfect. My faith does not depend on a group of bad elements or a single priest (good or bad). Other religions / organizations have similar problems as they are run by humans.
We may be angry at some persons in the church but the faith is another independent thing that should not be affected. If it is, maybe your faith was never strong or in you.
I would also question if our conservative, family oriented and strong resistance to some of the changes in our "modern" world are creating such a big media frenzy.
My faith is in God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – not the Roman Catholic Church.
I live in Australia and as a human being living with other human beings on this planet, we are all accountable for our actions good or bad...With those actions comes reactions and accountability...Not one person will be unaccountable in the course of humanity...I am a catholic and was practising up until 17 years ago..At the age of 16 a new parish priest was installed in our parish and he was full of life, funny etc...Everybody liked him, he was given a new car by the parish and went to peoples places for dinner...My mother typed the parish newsletter from our home and he was a constant visitor...I had three young sisters one aged 3 and twins aged 2..He used to kiss them starting on the cheek then progressing to the lips...I felt uncomfortable...Then one day he was no longer welcome in our home...Why? Because he had been taking young boys home to his parents house and sleeping with them and having showers with them...When he was caught he started crying asking them not to take away the child...My parents with a group of others went to the Archbishop who by the way only did what he was required by the church to do which was report it to a Queens Counsel and then see what was suggested...WE had one in our parish..(Queens Counsel is a senior Lawyer who has been in the courts for a very long time)
The lawyer did only what he was supposed to do because the church wanted it kept hush, hush...Finally after a lot of letter writing and visits to the Archbishop he was moved but not to prison, to another parish...To make a long story short he again abused and finally in the 90's went to jail...We found out that he had abused Children prior to being put in our parish quite a few times and had been moved on each occasion...However nothing was ever done by the Archbishop or the Vatican...Even through all this I went to church and believed....I since have opened my mind further and learnt more about other religions as well as history on the Catholic Church and more about spirituality....I no longer have faith in the Leaders of the Catholic Church although I have known some wonderful priests and nuns. Do I trust any religion, NO...I have faith...That is different to religion..I don't knock anybody else for their beliefs all I suggest to people is have an open mind to all teachings, remember what you give out you get back, and the is no absolute in life there is only interpretation...There are no facts only beliefs and beliefs can be right or wrong only when something is proven does it become fact...The only fact in my life is one day I will die everything else is up to my interpretation...
I am speaking of my own experience and also my own observations about what is and has happeneded here In Dublin following the recent revelations
I do not assume to speak for your experiences in life so please do not assume to speak for mine
I am an ex catholic for several reasons one of them was being violated as a young boy by a man I was raised to trust: a priest
I am also aaware of the differences of the actions of a few versus the actions of the many so please do not lecture me
It is a foregone conclusion that sexual abuse always has happened in the church.
The statement by the Dutch cardinal Simonis: "Wir haben es nicht gewusst." is entirely correct. (This statement refers to the denial by Germans that they did know about the treatment of Jews during the war.)
All this has little to do with the Catholic Faith but everything to do with the faith in the Catholic Church and its hierarchy.
It is impossible to believe that these abuses were unknown to the hierarchy.
I was born and raised a Catholic . Went to Catholic school through High School. Fought to have Catholicism recognized at a German Brethern College I attended. After all of that I no longer practice and am happy not to do so. Not only Catholics but all religions drive society to war, hatred of others , mistrust and moral and financial decay.
Hi Udofia, as you surmised, the” leadership has failed”. Which leadership? Christ is the head of the Church and the Leadership that is infallible. Others are fallible and expecting perfections from them will disappointment you and that is why the bible tells to look onto only him. Do not berate the Church because the Church never teaches or support evil. The world is evil and evil is perpetrated in it.
It still baffles me that priests could give up all materials and personal gains to embrace the life they chose. In going about this they make mistakes but should that mean that priesthood is evil? Who is perfect? Each one of us should examine our conscious, then should we cast the first stone?
Celibacy: am sure if abandoning that will stop sex abuse, I will be the first to support it. But you and I know it won’t. Cases abound where married men and women commit sexual offences. Are serial killers/rapists celibate? The pastors that marry, are there no sexual cases there? Or the imams are they scions of sexual probity? The questions are endlessly.
I believe the Church is the body of Christ and is infallible because Christ cannot fall. But the priests and laities could. That does not take away what these men and women have done to benefit mankind. For the clergy and religious, march on, do not be deterred by the capitalization on the human failings, look onto Christ and do the Church proud. We will continuously pray for the Church.
Please, also read Mark’s submission. It is a great write up.
Ignore what the other "Don" has to say. He again is another fine example of a "BLIND" Catholic to the abuses not only in this century but in the entire exsistence of this Pagan Religion. Any person that calls the pope "Holy Father" got to be blind. Pope benedict was a proud member of the Hitler Youth, he also knew and covered-up sex abuse in his parish in Munich...Shame on you to be called a "Holy Father".....!
Not even Jesus demanded to be called Holy Father...!
As a practising catholic,the events of the sex abuse scandal does not affect my faith but strengthens it to know that as humans we are all sinners and needs the grace of God to overcome the wicked passions in the world..It is the celebration of sex in all its form in the west that has led these servants of God to stray if actually these stories are true and not another fall out of the da vinci code that tries to discredit my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. The world wants people to loose faith in God but we catholics will not.I love my catholic church and our Lord Jesus Christ will strengthen her to overcome her weakness.God Bless the catholic church.
Deliberate Ignorance/ Blindness is shamefull and outrageous .
I blame some big medias(owned by big business) and many people in the developped world because they prefer their ignorance to truth and knowledge because they feel more confortable like that ( i am certain that one CAN'T be an assumed and consistent catholic or christian and work on the mediatic stage).
I blame liberal intolerance(while they are still repeating "tolerance,tolerance") and as they have been spreading amorality for decades.
These new kind of public prosecutors are scarry. They don't need trials since the defendants are de facto ,immediatly, guilties in their brave new world. The trials are "public" made the populace,ragheads and powerfull medias.
Many priests,bishops and even popes died to bring Gospel in many remote parts of the world.
Liberalism is today the worst obscurantism for sheeps and slaves.
They already forgot that J.Paul II has been already killed and forgave his agressor...
They ignore St Vincent de Paul , St Camille de Lelis....and many heroical priests known and unknown.
I perfectly understand that a great fight is going on all over the world and i'll try to stand on the right side beside the sane part of the Catholic Church.
I grew up as a devout Catholic but by the age of 15, after being groped by my parish priest, and my mother unable to afford the money the Archdiocese of NY demanded for an annulment, I began to realize that something was seriously wrong with the Church. My young doubts have more than been reinforced over the years by an awareness of Church finances and politics, by a study of the history of the Church, and the Church's unconscionable acceptance of human suffering in the name of doctrine (e.g., cruel abortion laws in Kenya). I've come to regard the Church as one of the most evil of human institutions.
TOO ALL WHO WROTE ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH I SAY, FORGIVE AND WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE ? ARE WE GOD? THIS HAPPENDS IN EVERY RELIGION KNOWN TOO MAN. THINK ABOUT IT ! HAS GOD MADE YOU JUDGE???? HAS THE DEVIL MADE YOU BLINED THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE HE IS AS HUMAN AS THE REST OF US??? THINK ABOUT IT EACH OF YOU? " HE THAT IS WITH OUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE"
It is meaningless to claim that faith trumps all, or that there is evil in all religions. The fact is that all religions are fundamentally evil. The world would be better off without Catholicism or Islam.
I am a catholic, I grew up well attended to by priests and religious. I have never been abused by them but I have been blessed severally by their impacts on my life and on my family. For their actions, I am very proud.
The scandals are being discussed far and wide, it all centers around some priests that abused children variously. More and far worse things may still be revealed later than now, but thanks to God that the gates of Hell will not prevail against his Church. The people around whom these are woven had been weak, but the church's message had never encouraged their misbehaviours.
Christ has called us all, the strong and the weak alike, the graces he bestows on us are ever-flowing and he is aware that all of humanity need the healing and the mercy of God in one way or the other.
Let it not be forgotten that the church had done a lot of good for the world across the ages and the church had been (and is still is ) a voice for the voiceless across the world just because the hidden lives of some very few of her priests and religious is now placed under scrutiny.
To all that had been abused, I offer my deepest sympathy and prayers for healing. For the priests responsible for these, I pray God will heal them and help them to be of positive impact on humanity and fulfill their calling.
To the press, I say direct your energies aright and don't believe you can bring down the church, the body of Christ, by negative publicity. The future of the church do not depend on what negative publicity you try to give. The negative opinions of fallen priests and others that have left their calling are given so much prominence in your reports but they are not in any way binding on the church or her future either.
To all catholics, I say, pray more, stand firm for the Lord has promised us that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.
The faith we have is a gift from God and all that's happening now can only strengthen it and make the church better.
For how long is the Pope going to apologised?
Repentance must be preceded by action. Our Church must take this time to reflect and make amends. It is time the faithful considered marriage for priests. Yes we do not have structures to support marriage clergy and pardophiles are sick people requiring our help and prayers!
The Vatican Ambassador to Zambia has not said anything here but even our notable Bishop Milingo has married at 80 earning him expulsion from the Church. It would be interesting to get comments from former priests what their take is on the scandals facing the Church
To blindly justify faith as a gift from God exemplifies exactly what is wrong with religion - it encourages righteous self delusion. The idea
that any man is God's representative on earth is completely absurd, and people who claim it, as well as those who believe it, border on being mentally disturbed.
The growing disclosures of abuse and cover-up on the part of Catholic priests are horrendous and intolerable but seem to be human faults which poison all mankind. Still, it is all the more intolerable and inexcusable for a major institution which purports to lead morality to allow and even foster such abuse. It pains me very particularly for although I am not a Catholic, I owe a great debt to Catholic priests in the U.S. and in France for their unique assistance in moments of great distress–situations in which the Catholic church is the only source of aid.
The ignorance of people in regards to their religious belief is so startling. Wake up and realize that your faith has been shaped by these supposed religious leaders. Their actions just make transparent the misforfune and arrogance of religious belief. Please people...find truth and beauty in the natural world and not in some ancient book. You don't need a pope, priest, or divisive and intolerant brand of religion to help you love, live, and learn.
At least this church is not afraid to air its dirty linen in public. Would Islam allow CNN to carry out an investigation on the abuse in Islam without fatwas or riots in islamic countries.
I am not a practising catholic but this discussion of abuse will most likely reform and renew the Church. It has also rekindled my interest in the faith
You probably missed something about christian theology so that you can tell any thing as if it was God's words!
The Catholic theology is smartest than you seem to understand.
Every christian is incorporated(or supposed to be) to Christ according to his faith. Every body is created by God and "capax Dei".
Priests are "sacraments"(ie signs) of Christ as Head or Shepherd...
That said the mariage of priests could be possible but celibacy also makes a lot of sense.
As for the faith try to think to "fides ex auditu" and "pia affectio"...and you'll begin to understand something.
When ignorants try to teach and lecture people, the world is in trouble
Having given the possible connection between priesthood, celibacy and paedophilia much thought over the last hour or two, I have come to the conclusion that it is an unhealthy attitude to sex that lies at the root cause of these issues. Most particularly, the connection between the 3 S's: sex, shame and sin. If paedophilia is perpetrated generation after generation, breeding more sexually damaged victims that grow up filled with shame and abnormal sexual inclinations, where would they be inclined to go? I can very well imagine deciding that joining the priesthood was the only solution.
The fundamental problem is that this chain of abuse is not being stopped. An abused child is not offered help, it is sworn to silence, and taught to feel shame. This all breeds more secrecy, more repression and more hurt.
The system needs to be rigidly cleansed, but most of all, the abused need to be helped and nourished, so that they can develop into healthy adults. It also needs to be understood that paedophilia is an abnormality that is often created by abuse in the first place (as I understand it).
Sexuality must become a more natural thing. It must be talked about openly. It cannot be swept under the carpet, because we are all sexual beings, whether we like it or not. Frankly, the priesthood has been an escape for damaged youths for too long. Repression is never a good solution.
if the pope is allowed to walk from any sort of charge (let alone the child molestors that he and the Vatican authorities protected and, in some cases, promoted) then it really is not an overreaction to say that in this world, you can get away with any offense if you get a clerical title put in front of your name (coined by Christopher Hitchens). not a single civilian with no official, clerical job would ever get away with this – they would be rotting in prison. in either case, the church has lost. if it allows ratzinger to be arrested or any of his cronies involved in these schemes, it disproves the Church's infalibility. if it contiues and succeeds in protecting the guilty parties, then we know what the Church is really about. it does not care about those they preach to and it certainly does not care about justice for its victims or its perpetrators. either way, the Church will lose members and there will be more discontent with Vatican (both for non-Catholics and Catholics). if they have any dignity whatsoever, they should take the former option and punish the "infallible" with laws of the state like anyone else would. wearing white pajamas and robes and a large cross around your neck are just material items – they do not make you exempt for anything.
Robert d'Amato, I could not agree more, then add in money, gold and our favourite human characteristics, greed and deceit, and there you go – organised religion!
Now that we have science to explain our natural phenomena, I am urged to ask, why do we still have religion? While a lot of religious followers do so out of sheer lack of independent thought, what about those who have converted having had no religious influence in their lives? I think religion offers, most of all, comfort to the distressed and the fearful. Many people turn to religion later in life when they begin to think of death and afterlives and so on, while others turn to it in a crisis.
Whilst I hold the notion that religion is bizarre and fantastical, even outrageous, I cannot deny those who are in pain some comfort, (Do you want to be the Grinch that stole Christmas?), and if that means letting them be brainwashed by corrupt institutions, so be it. At least I know that I still have all my faculties!
The Catholic Church has done many acts in the name of God like 'crusading' around the globe, torching witches, etc... But sexual child abuse? Was this done in the name of God?
Punishment to the sicko abusers, but more on the leaders, who covered-up, moved the sicko around to other parishes and now denying.
Moreover the Church should be sued for collusion for the cover-up. Like any other organization/company. All those threatening the children & their families with excommunication !!! They should go to Hell immediately.
I was raised Catholic, but no more.
This scandal does not stop me from going to church and practicing my faith as a Catholic. In fact, if anything, it drives me more to be more prayerful. That said, I do not ignore the fact that these scandals may exist, but it seems funny to dig up scandals from nearly 20 years ago. The church and the Truth that it professes is very beautiful, despite the mistakes of those who minister it.
I just saw the clip on CNN with Sinaed O'Connor – literally calling for the Catholic Church to be put on trial to the very top. What a joke from a woman who had herself 'ordained' and whose personal life is far from traditionally moral. By what standard is she judging the Church – her own? in which case what is she complaining about. Deviancy and immoral behaviour all swings from the same tree the particular expression of it is a matter of degree. What the world now calls free living used to be a moral crime and an injustice to one's neighbour. So it all depends on where you seat yourself.
CNN can only have chosen to put Sinaed on air for sensationalism. She speaks for no one but the culture which finds the Church 'obsolete'.
What have you done for the victims? The many families of those who committed suicide and those mentally ill today because of the abuse?
Standing for your faith and religion first? Selfish salvation?
I can understand the volume of comments on this topic. I'm not a Christian. From some of the the comments I read I've learnt a few things, which I couldn't have otherwise. So I intend to persue more of them to develop an awareness of Catholocism. Religion is one of the sujects of my interest.
Thereafter I may add some comments from a constructive point of view.
Although I married a Roman Catholic, we chose to not bring our children up in that "faith." Especially once we became aware that there was abuse in the local church and apparently had been for decades. Mild abuse of family members of my spouse even. This was more of an embarrassment to the church elders than of a concern of safety to their children. 30 years later & still nothing – like it never happened.
How does a society and church knowing that they are doing great harm on a daily basis?
I have a good friend that was a Lutheran Pastor. He is not longer in the clergy as while he was a pastor, he had an affair with a married woman in his church. He faced both discipline from the church & from authorities for breaking the law. As he should have. He admits his crime against human law and Gods law & paid a very high price.
I live in the midwest, so have limited experience with exposure outside of the traditional Christian faiths. I do believe ALL institutes of faith have abuse, I have a though time believing that any are are pervasive or horrific as in the RC church. Although I tried to embrace and understand the RC church, in the end I believe I will let it either die a deserved death or let it undergo the necessary changes. I have time & look forward to the day where the RC church gets back to the direction that God and his people intend.
The Catholic Church has survived worse and will continue till the end of time. The behaviour of some fallen-away priests does not detract from its overall Holiness, and the FACT that Christ (GOD HIMSELF) instituted His Church.. Nor does it affect the Absolute Truth of ALL Her Teachings on matters of Faith and Morals. In this area, the Catholic church has never erred, and can never err. Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen (of happy memory) once wrote: “Never, never argue with a catholic who has fallen away from the church, for he has fallen away not for a reason but for a thing.” . So reason will cut no ice with them. Only humility and prayer will do the trick. True Catholics are NOT shaken by the scandal. “If my little finger is dirty, does it mean that my whole hand is polluted?”. These fallen-aways are a handful when compared with the many thousands of Catholic Priests faithful to their mission and to their vows. The sensation-hungry media, playing on the people’s lust for gossip, never writes about, or airs shows, and programmes on these millions of devout catholics and non-catholics alike. This is understandable (though not condonable), for the work and dedication of the good would never make hot, gossip-fuelling, error-confirming reading in this hedonistic, relativistic and Godless age. When anyone mentions the few aberrant priests, why not mention, in the same breath, the number of the multitude who have given up their lives to serve God and their fellow-humans.
The often thinly-veiled attempts by the media to denigrate the Catholic Church have NOT discredited it one iota in my view. I live by the Church's Teachings, believe all She teaches, and would die for Her teachings. I love Christ and His God-instituted Church more (much more) than ever before, and the mistakes of some members do not put me off the Church. My faith and my beliefs are much stronger than that. I am catholic for a reason and not for a thing!!! My faith, too, is based on reason.
Finally, it is obvious that the media, in the main, enjoy trying to find fault with the Catholic Church. So I am not surprised by their effusive, albeit negative, OVERALL imbalanced reaction. Better for them to probe their own private lives, and the lives of their journalists…..! Then, let the pure-of-heart amongst them sling the mud………..!
A good, well-researched show on the wisdom and the Sanctity of the Church might redress this cock-eyed, journalistic lopsidedness.
I was sodomized from ages 8 to 10, once gang sodomized by 4 priests. On one occasion I was suffocated following the rape where I played dead and slept in the woods. One of those who not only abused me, but threatened me with physical harm to me and my family if I told is a bishop in New York State. He stood by the pope when the pope was here in the USA.
This same bishop is loved by the parishioners, he can do no wrong. In fact this bishop publicly spoke about those few priests who have ruined the church, yet he is one. How many does he protect?
I am mentally ill due to the abuses, unable to concentrate for periods of time. Why is it OK for these people to bash those who struggled in life due to the violent rapes? Why is it OK for them to call us liars? They can because in New York State the law makers protect them for catholic votes. There should be no time barrier when victims come forward. The more violent the pedo(s), the longer it takes to come forward due to the mental illness caused. Some may be in their 70's and some never. Stopping the older victims from coming forward stops the exposure of the bishops who also sodomized. I was 52 when I woke from my trauma and today am 56. Even 2002 did not wake me.
There is no doubt the pope knew and helped hide these abuses. In fact he recommended quiet money on those who came forward before statutes expired. This left the victims who suffered the longest alone and rejected. Many committed suicide.
It reconfirms my belief that one can be Catholic without the authority of Rome. I just ignore everything Rome and the Bishops say or write and follow my faith as a Catholic. Benedict has done more to hurt the Catholic Church as an institution than any Pope in recent history. He has offended Jews, Moslems, Women and Homosexuals. He has rewarded Cardinal Law after the latter was ran out of Boston and it is difficult to believe he did not know exactly what was going on these past 40 years while he had power. So, bottom line – the scandal has made me a better Catholic since I no longer need the hierarchy. I do use Priests for the Sacraments except Confession which I believe should only be between the Penitent and God. Unfortunately I cannot convince my family and extended family to the same philosophy. They have all left the Church.
William, you said “in the end I believe I will let it either die a deserved death or let it undergo the necessary changes". Where is this authority coming from? You pour such venom on the Church? But I know you have not left America for die. America I know is where the good, the bad and the ugly leave. A country where kids have been kidnapped and raped for decades. Marriage between same sex, murder spree... i could go on and on. But you still live in America and probably answer proud American!!! Why. Isn’t that the height of Hypocrisy? You will have us all exodus from the Church for the alleged misbehavior of a few? One is for sure the Church will outlive you because it is Christ himself who is everlasting.
We are used to the old worn “I was a Catholic”. But you will never be because in the first place you were that for a thing not for a reason. And in your current religion, the members are beyond human frailty and your children the opposite of those raised in the Catholic Faith?
If you havent read the write of Marcus Flores in the blog.
This activity in the Catholic Church has been going on now for so so long. We hear that at the highest level noone knew...what of accountability? Isn't it the duty and responsibility of those in charge to know what is going on, to insist they know of issues at local levels that have far reaching impact on the institution? As a child I learned that after Christ ascended into heaven, the Holy Spirit remained to guide and protect the Church.... Is this all just another example of the mysterious ways in which God works?
Is a shame to the church were we all belong as achistain, we shld abel to show exanple of christ.
The pope shld kn that failure to fine out what has going in the church means he is not in control of the church.
The issue that fathers ar not supose to marry is a problem. Aloww this fathers to get marriage. This man shld be prosecuted publicly
it confirms that this religion is simply a tradition of man – if the Pope is truly a man of faith he will testify as to what he knew and what he did or didn't do to institute protocols and protections when priests are found to be criminals, and explaining why and how the church had no obligation to report the crimes nor even to protect their most innocent sheep, and how this hypocrisy affects his infallibility....
Jesus never mentioned Catholicism; He called christians to be a royal priesthood a holy nation; He provided the bridge between man and God and yet this religion claims we need priests to give an assignment for prayers to forgive sins, when simply by believing in Jesus and having a repentant heart, our sins are already forgiven. The priests who continue to sin are not repentant, the bishops and archbishops and popes who protect the criminals are just as guilty.
The Vatican has made mistake after mistake with this, most of which stem from the simple fact that it is an institution investigating itself. This rarely, if ever works — and it never take away the doubt of those an institution serves. The solution is a painful one:
A) Hire a law firm with no vatican ties that specializes in investigations
B) Give those investigators the power to subpoena any and all records and testimony needed to fulfill its purpose
C) Give the investigators an unlimited budget
D) Give them one simple charge, find the truth behind child abuse in the church
E) Any one who credible accusation can be leveled against should be immediately turned over to secular authorities to stand trial
I am a Catholic and despite the scandal, I still hold on to my faith. The Church has survived many attacks and the reason for its survival is because it has its foundation in something divine and not human. People need to realize that the main reason why we stick to our faith is not because of ministers who fell into error but because we have established a personal relationship with God. This is not to say that it's ok to have bad ministers, but please do not judge the Catholic church solely on that.
I' m beginning to respect the works of John Lerrato. I think we haven't seen nothing yet. Look back a couple of months. We had, gay priests, then Garido. Now we have people defending the the rapelay game. Where are we heading now with catholic priest molests. Is sad but i think we are frying ourselves in our own oil, as one famous African saying goes.
If you Catholic parents value your child's way of life, if you must send them to any type of Catholic classes, accompany them and watch them at all time. The priests have a way of freightening your children to keep them from telling the priest is molesting them. I told my Father regardless of their advise, and changed churches, but that didn't help. I was one of those that the priest was after. I got sick of the Catholic religion, but am still a Roman Catholic despite their sickly ways. Accompany your child every time they enter a church for protection, and Watch Them Closely. Don't allow them to enter a church alone for any reason unless you are nearby. That includes everything.
As a Catholic I find this all very depressing. This is a hard and bitter cross for all of us to bear. But it does not affect my faith. Terrible mistakes have been made but the Church always reforms itself and moves on. As Catholics we have always known Jesus' promise that his Church would last until the end of time. That still remains and if you examine the history of the Church there have been many scandals throughout its history. But as Hillaire Belloc, the great English Catholic and historian observed many years ago: "An institution run with such knavish imbecility that if it were not the work of God it would not last a fortnight." God himself will preserve the Church despite the failings of its leadership. The Church is still a work of God and still has much to offer but it MUST cleanse itself of this mess. It also needs to be recalled that the number of abusive priests is very small and we still have MANY faithful ones who go about their duties without publicity and often at great personal sacrifice. They however, do not get any press. That's a shame.
I grew up Catholic & was an altar boy for many years , back in the era of the Latin Mass. I haven't been involved in any religious activities for years , with the church having taken such an erroneous position on sexual orientation. It is important to note that many attempts have been made to link the molestings to 'gay' priests. The pope had a study conducted recently , which determined that homosexual priests were no more likely to molest children than heterosexual priests. But the damage was done , and people will link the scandals to gay priests forever. Church leaders may or may not have known that disseminating such slander against homosexual persons was an act of dishonesty , but I'm quite sure they did. They chose an easy scapegoat. And , mishandled the crisis big-time.
I read the 10 commandments and they don't say anything about molestation or rape even. Either they are not morally wrong or god just forgot about them. Wait, maybe he just thought Moses was too stupid to understand the concepts. So god just passed on important moral issues when writing the commandments and made many of them about himself.
Oh I know what it is – god does approve of slavery which inculcates rape and molestation so yeah, they are all kool. God says so when he approves slavery.
Please everyone leave the catholics alone, this is just all part of their culture and you are not being very understanding of their ways.
The pope and the Catholic Church should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. I am Catholic, and this is and will be seen by history as a culture of abuse & a condoning of abuse in the Church – as basically a safehaven for sexual deviance.
I am sorry to say, but if you don't believe that the Pope is the infallible representative of god here on the earth, then you are not catholic as much as you try.
Surprisingly many members of the Catholic Church simply overlook the priest child molestion scandal, the priest HIV/AIDS problems and gays in the priesthood. Bill Donahue sure does! Could it be that church people will never admit their mistakes in choosing a religion?
If I heard that my donations were being tossed in with another $2 Billion for child molestion settlements, I would not hesitate to leave the church and definitely would not make excuses with reasoning that this is all a secular media frame-up!
On Larry King Live, 3-30-2010, Bill Donohue, President of the Catholic League reported that the Catholic sex abuse scandal is not a pedophilia crisis but a homosexual crisis. He gleaned this from records that shows most molested children are post pubescent (over 11 or 12) thus making them old enough to be receptive to acts of homosexuality. Therefore, Mr. Donohue blames the problem on gay priests and not pedophilia priests. Somehow, I don't think Mr. Donohue is doing the Vatican any favors by adding these comments.
Hello well im not a catholic but this crime is not only done in catholic churches its everywhere so i think it should be in court a real court i mean where law is really practiced..
This horrific scandal in the Catholic Church has totally undermined my trust in the institutional church's ability to govern and handle -with integrity and respect for the laws of the land-the most heinous of crimes by their ordained ministers. A culture of secrecy and silence prevails within an institutional system and structure to support this largely unchallenged power base. A structure that values an exclusive and arrogant clerical society more than the innocent children they serve. The current barrage of publicity is well deserved. This is the same church that has brought us the Inquisition and the Crusades.
For me there are TWO reasons to feel ashamed if still beeing a member oft the RKK:
First, sure: The pedophilian abuse of children, who had put their trust in priests.
Second:This disgusting cover-up that goes on, now, for decades!
I cannot decide, what is more evil.
In your U.S. – with the better "consumer-protection"-laws – the church prefers to pay billions not to have an open trial in front of a court, where evidence would have been put in plain sight. But at least the (former) kids get the benefit of beeing believed.
In many other countries there are no trials. In Germany the church even has the RIGHT to decide IF they want to inform law-inforcement ... or rather not. The victims can call themselves lucky, if they at least get a portion of the doctors bills paid for by the church.( Out of charity, of course...)
IF someone, even parents or fellow-churchmembers, believes them at all – they do not have the right to get the evidence out of church-archives. That would only be the case, if there would be a public trial.
Today is Holy Thursday, the day Christ instituted the Eucarist (Mass).
On that day one apostle, Judas (church leader) betrayed Jesus. On that day the other apostles deserted him. The leader of the apostles (Peter, the first Pope) denied him. Betrayal, desertion and denial marked the first interventions of the main church leaders of the empryonic church. It is wondrous that this institution has survived at all given its human record from the start to the present.
However, it is well to remember that the church itself contains a message that is greater than human weakness.
I grew up in Ireland in the 1950s and 1960s in religious institutions. Fortunately, I did not meet the type of abusers that have made headlines recently. Not all clerics were in this category. But my sympathy goes out to all who were abused.
The Vatican's reaction doesn't pass the smell test. Vatican clerics are pulling the same ploys one sees in Washington when the media reports something public officials would rather not have see the light of day. Why is Cardinal Law in Rome instead of in a US prison? Why have no bishops been fired? Why is it that the clerical bureaucracy's first reaction is to stonewall and hire lawyers? Why are they indulging the a "shoot the messenger" strategy with the media instead of dealing openly and candidly by getting the facts out?
I am a 74-year-old Catholic who does not believe that the clergy represents the Church of Jesus Christ. Vatican II said we, the people of God, are the church. The clerics in Rome and in our chanceries need to be more concerned with nuturing the people of God, protecting our children and ridding themselves of hubris than in protecting their ecclesiastical backsides. As far as I am concerned, the Catholic clergy is a male caste system whose primary goal is to protect their privileged status and power.
- My faith is based on Jesus Christ. Does the American Constitution have less value because there are American murderers?
– The Catholic Church is not a church of saints but of sinners who with the grace of God try to become a bit less sinful. The cases are extremely painful, but them also in perspective: the method of transferring that is criticized is still (or was until recently) still followed in the U.S. public school system. Only the fines are so much higher for the catholics.
– 2 to 4% of the priest were abusive. Most cases are 20 to 30 years old. 7% of public high school students are still being abused within the school premises during their 6 years.
20 to 50 years ago pedophilia was not considered as bad as now, the methods to deal with also changed. This explains also the fact that government did not do much to persecute these people. If convicted, they were even treated better in jails.
I know priests who are in jail for pedophilia. However, in the U.S. it is mainly money from the bishops; in most other countries it is mainly jail terms for the priests.
I think what we're seeing here is a modern-day persecution of the Church. Yes, perhaps a few incidents of abuse did occur, but certainly not more than in any other church or profession. I wonder why other professions such as teachers, doctors, coaches, camp counselors, other churches, not to mention parents, have not been subjected to the same level of scrutinity as the Catholic Church? You also don't look back 20, 30, 40 or 50 years and say why didn't they handle these incidents in the same manner and with the same knowledge as we do now in 2010. I think what we're also seeing here is an unfortunate modern American trend of if you want to add more money to your checking or savings account you find some institution that you think "hurt" you in the past and that you think has deep pockets and then sue them. It's time to start calling the response to these "alleged" sex abuse cases what it is–an act of persecution and an act of greed. The "victims" should take up the issue with the specific people who abused them and not with people who years later have no connection with the incident at all. No parish or diocese should have to sell property, close parishes, discontinue ministries, or disrupt services to other people who need those ministries, and who had nothing to do with the abuse, just to satisfy the greed of some others and their lawyers.
@ D.G. you said : "I think what we're seeing here is a modern-day persecution of the Church. ...I wonder why other professions such as teachers, doctors, coaches, camp counselors, other churches, not to mention parents, have not been subjected to the same level of scrutinity as the Catholic Church? "
Are you suggesting that big tobacco was "persecuted" for selling a product it new was addictive and deadly? When an organization conspires to do evil and uses massive resources to shield law breakers, open investigation is NOT persecution.
@Luke M you said: "My faith is based on Jesus Christ. Does the American Constitution have less value because there are American murderers?"
Will you please tell me the passage of the constitution that says it is the inerrant will of god? I might have missed it.
Incidents? You are a fruit. Must be a priest or someone raped raped you, identifying?
Thankfully. most people today don't involve themselves in cult behavior. More importantly, people no longer fear the delusions. That is what changed!
It's called dilution or if you're kind of savvy then it's osmosis. Crazy occurrences of the fore are becoming common and normal. the fact that it has been happening will soon no longer make the news. Very soon it will be a non issue. I pity the human race due t othat. We're slowly loosing the grip
Please forgive me, i am not catholic, but would like to comment on child abuse in general, as this does not person does not represent religion.
This might appen anywhere in the world, but anyone in contact with childrn(kids), like teachers, baby siters, medical staff, coaches in sports,........anyone in unsupervised contact with a kid.
weather the kid likes it or not, at least below 18, it's a rape, he/she doesn't have mature judgement of what he/she wants. there should be severe penalties, weather the adult is considered sick(ill) or crimnal, at least that person should be prevented from hurting again kids, and perhaps punished, so as no one else dares to do this again.
sorry for intrusion, but all religions says do good, and not bad, i was just comenting on the idea as a whole, as this MIGHT cause chronic damage to the kid.
The Pope is a criminal, he should be removed for the good of the church and for all that have been hurt from his reighn of deciet that spans decades. I believe he is responsible for much of the cover-up and I feel no sympathy for him as he tries to play the victim now. He will burn in hell.
I am a 57 year old catholic. i grew up being an altar boy, i am from a very small town in arkansas, i know and understand how a priest back then had his way. no family would ever dispute the word of a roman catholic priest, ever. the families looked at the priest, went to the priest for everything. a family with mother/father, the priest was the last word. Yes that was the way it was. a long time ago, but that was a catholic life back then.
1)The Catholic Church is the only multi-national religious instituition with a CEO with special characteristics of power and abuse, not unsimilar to Madoff and Enron.
2)It is ludicrous to mention the Jews as a religion in this scandal, it is devious.
3)Abuse, known as the Inquisition, for example, is what the Catholics have inflicted on the Jews continuously, and on Moors, Hindus, etc
4)The Catholic Church is a histotry of abuse, their courageous followers who ´protested´ in the 16th century were excommunicated or burned at the stake.
5)The current abusers are worse than common criminals because they are messengers of God duly ordained with vows, tney were to be exemplary models of behavior
6)What about concern for the children abused, the Church hardly mentions them, victims, victimized for life
Cardinal William Levada defends the Pope and attacks the media. Now we learn that he himself re-assigned a known molester without informing the parishioners. How is that for hypocrisy?
first off, note that i am an atheist, therefore do not believe that any of those ordained by the catholic church are in fact "inspired by god" in their acts or words.
i see nothing but a bunch of rich white men in funny hats who like to touch little boys all the while telling how you are supposed to live your life or else they will sentence you to an eternal fire pit.
they do some good for the world as an organization, but so did acorn. acorn is now disbanded because of relatively trivial matters as compared to child abuse.
the only reason the catholic church remains is because they have brainwashed people into thinking that if they doubt it, they will be punished severely for all eternity.
I am a practicing Catholic and I'm naturally upset by what has happened in the past. There can never be any justification for sexual abuse and the Church has been wrong in trying to protect priests. I do feel that the news media have exagerated the involvement of the catholic church though.It would suit the secular society to try and change the catholic church's ideas on the sancticy of the human person from conception and the use of artificial birth control.I forget the estimates of how many human persons are killed every year by abortion. I think that it was Pope Paul who in 1962 predicted the demise of morals and the sanctiy marriage if artificial birth control was permitted. This has happened and thousands of children are now paying the price.
For the REAL cases of paedophilia from priests, the liberal anti-christian or anti-catholic speaking on this thread should know(if they have a fair good will) that the catholic church was contaminated with the liberal secularist mindset during the 70's....
Many priests were disturbed in their faith....
Some of them entered the catholic church and they are not the victims!
I rather think that many gay activist associations are behind the current planned attack against the catholic church.
About ignorant liberals.
The Crusades were fully justified as a defense against the muslim invasions. But now you have to deal yourself with islam in USA and in the WH......I am watching you with pop corns from France!
BTW for what's his name who wants catholic to waaaaake up!!!!!!!!!
I have been educated in catholic schools,scouts,catholic hollyday camps and studied a few years in seminaries in Rome and different places. I wanted to be a priest and one of my brothers is a priest.
Please stop speaking with arrogant and straight words about things you widely ignore!
Thank you to confirm the liberal ignorance and intolerance(both work together)
The church was persecuted by Nazi's? Hogwash.
Have you ever been to the Vatican? There are billions of dollars of gold and treasure right there on the walls for the taking. When Hitler occupied Rome, why didn't he loot this treasure? He was killing Jews and taking gold fillings out of their teeth, but you think he just forgot about the Catholic gold that line its fortress?
The Church was in league with the Nazis. Mussolini – Hitlers mentor, personally revived the catholic church. It was Mussolini who established the Vatican as its own sovereign state! The Catholic Church signed a peace treaty with Hitler, which is why priests in Germany do not have to face legal action. They were partners in Crime (Mussolini, Hitler, Pope Pius XI).
The church has never been contaminated – it is the center of the primary contamination of morality.
I was raised Catholic, as was my husband. We raised our three children in the Catholic faith for a time. Our sons were never alter boys and my husband gave them clear instructions about touching before they ever went to school or came close to a priest. Consequently, my kids always feared priests and avoided them altogether.
We left the church after the first wave of abuse and inaction in 2002. We have been non-denominational ever since. My donations go to LDS Humanitarian efforts around the world. If you consider for a moment what the billions of dollars could have accomplished in the world to feed the hungry,clothe the naked, provide shelter to the homeless. Instead, our money was used to cover up the crimes of pedophile priests.
I would like every Catholic to consider where exactly your hard earned dollars are going when you give to the Catholics each week. There is a saying about fools parting with their money. The Catholic church is disgusting and wrought with pedophilia! In 12 years of Catholic school, two different priests attempted to molest my brother, once when he was in 7th grade, and the other occasion was in high school.
I read the Murphy report from Ireland (Gov't investigation of the Catholic Church). It is filled with knowledge and cover-up. Two children were sworn to secrecy and signed a document promising to keep their abuse a secret. The priest? Oh well, he got a new assignment "working" with children, of course.
They are disgusting pigs and they need to pay a price for their crimes. If I saw a priest walking the sidewalk I would spit on the ground before him.
What you said shows your ignorance and stupidity.
So you pretend you had faith but you are showing that it was not faith but a vague and weak opinion.
So you are accusing all the priests....!!???
Thank you to show the true face of those who are easily and roughly accusing people who happen to be priests.
Please don't change anything.
CNN have a very nice public! Nice thread !
Actually, supporting Catholicism or Christianity in any way is what shows ignorance.
The 6 day creation is a lie – it did not happen.
The idea there were ever Hebrews in Egypt is a lie – it did not happen.
Every virgin birth story is a lie – it did not happen.
Every resurrection story is a lie – it did not happen.
Lord – even the 10 commandments are wrong in number. Can't you count to 10 because apparently god can not.
Santa Claus and the Easter bunny are cute ways to teach children it is fun to lie. In fact though, lying is evil and then so must be the bible and the church.
There is rarely any abuse anywhere and Our Eternal Father, His Son Jesu, and the Holy Spirit will know if there is. Hey CNN, why don't you start talking about REAL problems in this world like your FREEMASON lodges that are the perpetuaters of these so-called scandals and are linked up with the very Antichrist himself from the Temple Institute of Jerusalem. I wonder if you can air that on your 'controlled' media outlets.
One great writer once said, put a man in a room for 20 days and study his thoughts and doubt not that sex will cross his mind. Now I'm not a staunch Christian. But i do look at life very realistically. I'm a realist and one thing i know is many people live double lives.
We are all weak and the Bible states it very well. We ought to all try to be Godly, but when we slip, then let's understand it's basically in us to fallout sometimes. But the goal is to try and balance on the moral rope for as long as you can. And when you fall, dust yourself and climb onto the rope again. Dusting yourself here means going to your church, shrine etc and asking for forgiveness.
If the priests did it for real, then it's very wrong. And if it's becoming so common place like it seems to, then the church ought to rethink its strategy. It's very damaging for man to have sex with another man in the first place. God made Eve for Adam and not Evans. Too many wrongs don't make a right. But it should help us seek ways of preventing the wrongs. What can be done right such that none is violated both in heaven and earth should be our focus.
The arguments here all make sense. And if this was a court room, which I think is in a way, then this would take a whole lifetime to resolve.
I'm seeing this going on for a very long time personally because the acts will continue; more victims will talk and more clergy will fall on the way. The best thing is to take the bulls by the horns. If all the advocates here were to lead by example for just 3 months, i guess this issue will be resolved very quickly. Yes ,Christ said "cast the first Stone." Has anybody read John Lerrato's work. If you can get your hands on his book "the end" then you will see a better perspective of what we are up against and who is the likely secret player in all this and what he wants.
I wouldn't mind freely passing onto you his ebook and let you see what i mean. Send me an email and i can arrange something. John gives the best answers for some of the inconsolable acts happening on earth. He gives a solution that the whole world, i bet, will be willing to unite to achieve. It's so simple. It's a win win for all religions, races and belief systems. Like for example he argues that if God is the Alpha and Omega-therefore the most powerful being-then he can be anything including nothing at the same time. So he can exist and not exist at the same time. He can be Allah, Jehova and even the devil if he wished so. Why not! He is that powerful isn't he? Does anyone doubt that he has that power?
So he must be the answer to all this noise we are making and in "The End," john gives us his experiment to call God in sooner rather than later. Personally I have never seen such horor. It's like seeking answers to some nagging problem for years and discovering that the solution has been right before your eyes. It's like in the movie Bruce Almighty. That beggar you've always passed screaming "its left to right, its left to right" has really been saying that as a solution to ending your non-functioning tap problems. Imagine the horor of finally turning the tap from left to right and seeing water flow.
By the way it can be from left to right or right to left depending on where you begin the spinning. Just the same way this discussion is going. It's akin to having your preacher/pastor preach naked like prophet Isaiah did in Isaiah 20:2-4. Would you suddenly stop believing in him?
1/ Thank you , you confirm that your goal here,like for many other people in that affair, is anti-catholicism and anti-christianism firstable and not to look for a fair truth. You are confirming my suppositions.
2/ No one told or taught that the Bible was a scientific book about Creation. Believing that is really stupid and is a sign of typical of liberal ignorance. But maybe you get your informations in cheap magazines and TV.
3/About the other topics i have some other sources which look more reliable than your rough assertions which pretends to be definites.
Sorry but i think that i will go on trusting J.Christ and hese disciples for different reasons....
4/On the ground of moral values liberals should remind that during the 70's their fake "prophets" and "intellectuals" preached for abolition of all moral values and bounds and that CHILDREN had a right to discover sexuality as a good and natural thing. Religion(and specially judeo christianism) was evil,moral and mariage were old burdens invented by religions and one could have sex with different women at the same time and also with men...
"If God doesn't exist everything is allowed" F.DOSTOIEVSKY (maybe you don't know who is DOSTOIEVSKY in your fantasy world).
5/ So you assume,like the Bright Shannon/ Sinead, that you can spit on someone because you don't agree with him or because some of hese colleagues made bad things?
Thank you for showing your true face
I am astounded how you flaunt arrogance and hypocrisy as if they are virtues. You call others ignorant and apparently you think that is honorable, but when I use the same word, you call it spitting. That is hypocrisy.
You presume to know my mind, the mind of every human that has ever lived, and the mind of god. That is the height of arrogance. Unless you wish to recant your claim that no one has ever told or taught the bible as a scientific book about creation. Because in fact Pope Urban VIII specifically did teach the bible as a scientific book about creation and he persecuted Galileo Galilei specifically for showing that the Pope was wrong. That is ignorance on your part and the Popes.
It is a bit much for you to show such a flawed knowledge about history and science and then besmirch my education. That is Hypocrisy.
Also you will have to recant your assertion that I said there is no god. I did not and it is unwise for you to assume that is how I think. It should be obvious that your notion of god is silly and repugnant to any educated and moral human, but even the vastness of your ignorance is not sufficient to cancel out the possibility of god. That is arrogance on your part.
I am not against Christianity, it is too meager an opponent. I am against lies and lying and it just so happens that the entire realm of Christianity falls into a small corner of that moral depravity – lying.
If you could make a single rational argument to defend Christianity to convince me it is not a depraved lie, I would love to heard it. I am fully open to the possibility. However, be aware that I have never heard a single defense of Christianity that would impress any moderately educated adult.
You have other sources. OK, so i am just suppose to take your word on it. Ever scholar in the field agrees, the Hebrews never lived in Egypt, they are merely descendants of the Canaanites themselves – they did not travel from anywhere. 1,000's of professionals agree on this fact, but I am suppose to ignore all of their evidence and all of their studies because you have a source.
Also, you may be aware but some time since the invention of Christianity, science has discovered germs and they theorize that germs cause disease and through this study of germs we have learned about genetics and sperm and you know what – disease and birth and bleeding and healing are not magic in todays world. We understand these things because of science.
Yes, 2,000 years ago people invented virgin birth stories and resurrection stories all of the time. it was common place – because no one even knew what blood was – they certainly didn't know about sperm or DNA. But through science we have been able to filter out the lies. It is clear now their is no possibility of a virgin birth, though resurrection has turned into a bit of a grey area.
But again your secret "word" your secret "source", not even the pope's will is sufficient to discount the fact that a virus causes AIDS and condoms are the best protection against the virus. Condoms work despite the will of god – as spoken through the Vatican.
As for showing my true face – I keep it on all day, but you can not see it. Even now you will refuse that I am nothing but a champion of the truth. I will gladly adsorb any correction or insight if it meets a decent muster and it is honest. However, that leaves you and your assertions little hope.
Also, I noticed how you side stepped the 10 commandments. How come god or the pope or anyone who reads the bible can not properly count to 10? There are not 10 commandments. Seriously doesn't that bother you? God and biblical "scholars" have not even noticed this problem with such a crucial thing and concept? They just run around pretending there are 10 commandments because thats what everyone thinks and its too late to change them now. Why would you worship a god that can not count to 10?
Please let us not confuse the popes archaic ideas about homosexuality, and marriage put in the same context as his obvious reluctance to admit any wrong doing in all of the pedophile cases and complain that he is being picked on by the media. I would expect more out of this politician(and he is one). It keeps getting sicker and sicker. The pope has never been considered infallable unless it is voted on by the college of cardinals, another sin by omission.
Stay focused on the thread.
I will not argue with you here on the catholic ,christian and jewish religion reliability and accuracy.
I really don't care about your insignificant and useless remark about the 10 commandments. Even if there were 9 commandments do you think that it would important enough to change ones mind about judeo-christian message....That's a rather poor argument.
About Galileo the Pope ,at that time, could have made a mistake but i have heard and red that the dispute was not about science but about Galileo's theological considerations...
Anyway you don't seem to know many theologians and thinkers and scientists who were convinced christians...That's a little bit curious.
About AIDS(and i guess that it could be the point which fuels your anger) i know a better mean than condoms . It is abstinence and fidelity even if you don't like it. Your world where people must always use that thing to make "love", or so-called love, is scary.
It's Shanon, a so-called former "catholic", who spoke to spit at priests in the streets....
Coming back to the issue i notice,once more,that all that brouhaha about old paedophilia affairs among priests have been emphasized and coordonated to specially target this disturbing old Pope now.
You are not sticking on facts but go on spouting your irrational hatred with fake and poor arguments.
And i have some ideas about the reasons which fueled the anti-catholic anger but i must go .
BTW do you know Dostoievsky?
If God is God and created the world ,He also can be the son of a virgin and He can also bring back someone to life....Don't be so short minded
There are 14 commandments – not 9. You claim to have read the bible and you don't know that? You don't think the bibles root moral code is important? You don't find it amazing that god and his disciples can't get this one very simple very important thing right?
Again you ignore what I say and instead you divine my mind and intention. You claim to know my motives better than I do and then try to attribute them to your own desires. Could anything be more arrogant? Or is it you just assume everyone is lying to you all the time?
Either way I have given you no reason to claim I simply hate Christianity other than the reason I have stated clearly – that it is a lie. Without any evidence to the contrary you simply make up other excuses so you can continue to attack me. Does that make you feel better? My battle is simply with lies and if you could make a single argument to show it isn't lies, I would happily convert.
Here is the crazy part – you admit that the bible is lying about the 6 day creation. I am amazed that you can admit this, but great – good going! You see that science has proven the 6 day creation to be a lie, then why do you ignore sciences proof that exodus is a lie and virgin births are lies and resurrections stories are lies.
If your very own mother approached you and told you she was pregnant but had not had sex in years – would you – could you believe her? Today, in our modern world, it would be an obvious lie – 2,000 years ago of course you would have believed her. So it seems my stand is perfectly clear and rational, virgin births are lies and lies are immoral, therefore the church and the bible are immoral.
But you refuse to accept that is logical. You have concluded there is no way that I honestly believe the rational argument I just made – even though you do not supply a single flaw with the argument.
Rather, you assert that I hate the church because the pope is trying to kill people by lying to them and telling them condoms don't work. He said that you know. He said clearly, condoms do not work to protect against aids.
Well the pope has the right to his own opinion and the idea that germs and viruses cause diseases is just a theory – so we should respect that. No! He is killing people. Yes germ theory is just a theory, but it is a scientific theory which means it is very rigorous and people should not just discount it because it is their wish to do so.
My point is not to hate the church because the pope is killing people, my point is that the pope is wrong about germ theory just as it is wrong about evolution theory and archeological theory (which shows there was no exodus) and genetic theory (which shows there are no virgin births or resurrections).
If I were going to hate the church for killing people, I would talk about the court systems when it was run by the church (Salem witch trials) and the crusades and Hitler and slavery and inquisition and the fall of the roman empire and frankly, where does it stop? Molesting boys and killing people through lies about aids is very benign for the church. About the best it has ever behaved.
People who have true faith in a religion will believe anything they are told by their leaders. The comments bear this out. Christ, the Pope, and the Catholic church can do no wrong. "Your blind faith tells you so!"
I believe its only GOD that sees everything.
the pope has nothing to do with this.
lets live everything to HIM.
as a former catholic i continue to be outraged at the "heads in the sand " attitude of not only the catholic church but so many still attending the church and supporting and boasting of their catholicness.
i have come to the conclusion that all catholics are hyppos!
that is short for hypcrites. i have searched many resources to see if there is a group of church laity that is currently active in reforming the church's evil ways. so far i have not seen any!
please, people wake up.
Rabbi Yeshua ben Joseph does not like the greek name you gave him,
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