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Live from Abu Dhabi Connect the World takes you on a journey across continents, investigating the stories that are changing our world.

Adobe and Apple continue to do battle

May 14th, 2010
04:23 PM ET

Dozens of newspapers and tech websites around the world had large spread advertisements from tech giant Adobe, saying that they "love Apple", despite being locked in a bitter dispute with the company.

Does the battle between Adobe and Apple impact you?
Does the battle between Adobe and Apple impact you?

Ads appeared in publications including the "Wall Street Journal" and "Financial Times" and was a play on words of the popular slogan "I love New York" - but instead this time it read "We love Apple".

The two companies have been in a bitter war against each other as Apple refuses to use Adobe's flash player software on its iPod and iPad platforms.

In a blog last month, Apple CEO, Steve Jobs wrote that "letting a third-party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform."

He also said the format leads to crashes, hinders app development and doesn't work well with touch-screen devices.

Adobe has argued against the move by Apple and has said in an open letter to the public that the internet should "be open to everyone".

"We believe that consumers should be able to freely access their favorite content and applications, regardless of what computer they have, what browser they like, or what device suits their needs," co-founders of Adobe Chuck Geschke and John Warnock wrote.

"No company — no matter how big or how creative — should dictate what you can create, how you create it, or what you can experience on the web."

We want to know what you think.

Is it fair that Apple doesn't include Adobe flash as an option on their platforms? Should it be open to everyone?


Filed under:  General
soundoff (84 Responses)
  1. david P.

    Ahh, yeah! Love Apple but I think Steve has an obsession with control. Can we ever have a device released with restrictions? It seems whenever I like a mobile gadget, I buy it and am disappointed because some simple tasks or apps are blocked because of corporate politics. I love the Ipad and will buy one when It has flash or its equivalent installed.

    May 14, 2010 at 4:40 pm | Reply
  2. Alex Tan

    i need adobe flash player for my ipod touch..

    May 14, 2010 at 4:46 pm | Reply
  3. jon

    Apple has clearly oversteps its bounds. Steve Jobs has been pushing for the "ipad" since the early 1990s, but in that time, hundred of thousands of developers have brought about incredible advances that have improved our daily lives, some from Microsoft, some from google, Sun, Linux, Berkley, Adobe, and yes Apple, as well as many others including opensource independant who give lots of time often unpaid, Apple clearly want to rule them all now and therefore I have decided to never buy an apple product.

    May 14, 2010 at 4:47 pm | Reply
  4. pythonlover

    Bottom line is its just a business get over it!. Apple creates and dictates what program to use on their portable devices. Adobe creates software. Now if Apple think it should not use some sort of software from Adobe because it crashes then you dont see any Adobe product on Apple portable devices, so what?.

    May 14, 2010 at 4:50 pm | Reply
  5. The Barbarian

    IF I buy an Ferrari I certainly do not hope that they put a Fiat motor in it, just because more people want a FIAT motor than A Ferrari motor. So why should I want to have an Flash player that screws up my browser? It is by the way not only craching Safari on Mac but millions of Windows users have the same problem. Everybody is free to get a phone in this case with Flash, 88% of the world's smart phones use it so more than enough choice if you want to crash your phone or browser.

    May 14, 2010 at 4:53 pm | Reply
  6. Sam

    Will never ever buy Apple. Today they are not compatible with Adobe with various technical issues and then they say Adobe has problems. I have been using Flash for ever and I have had no issues. I am sure that tomorrow Apple will say that they are not compatible with some other program or software. We will then have to stick with what ever they choose for us. Over-Priced, Over-Hyped, and nonsense. Steve really needs to get in touch with reality.
    Go Adobe!

    May 14, 2010 at 4:54 pm | Reply
  7. ron

    It's really the ipod and ipad customers that are on the losing end.

    May 14, 2010 at 4:57 pm | Reply
  8. neil

    I don't think it's right for Apple to limit the use the Flash on it's devices. If I buy an apple device I should be able to dictate what I do with it. It's like selling a car that is incompatible with certain roads.

    May 14, 2010 at 5:13 pm | Reply
  9. jaa

    Like many brilliant people, Mr. Jobs is a control freak.
    So, where is the Android powered iSlate that would not only run Flash but multiple apps at the same time?
    Who will be first; Dell?
    Or will Nokia beat them to it using its Qt power?

    May 14, 2010 at 5:19 pm | Reply
  10. Charlie

    Flash is a horrible proprietary battery hogging system crashing nightmare and has no place in the mobile space. Also if flash was delivered to a touchscreen device such as an iPhone people will be very dissapointed because most of the content is designed to be used with a mouse which would mean the click areas would be way too small to use with a finger and there would be no way to do a mouse over. Apple is smart not to implement flash because all the problems it would create would make the average user blame apple for the shortcomings. HTML 5 is the future, get over it!

    May 14, 2010 at 5:22 pm | Reply
  11. Shawn

    So let me get this flash works perfectly fine on every other platform but is sub standard on Safari and thats Adobes fault? Honestly iv never read such rubbish in my life. Typical draconian stance from a tin pot organisation led by and even bigger tin pot with delusions of granduer. Yeah to hell with flash have iHTML instead of which only a fraction of web pages support it. And to hell with the other 60% on the web using dynamic content. Way to go Jobs. Your even better an alienating your user base than i thought.

    May 14, 2010 at 5:36 pm | Reply
  12. momo

    steve should have said that if adobe ran smoothly on the i pad and was demonstrated with no crashes then they would allow it . He closed the door completely with adobe . He wants the web to be open when apple has many closed systems. the apple customers loose if we cant get adobe( but that is if they create a stable adobe software) .

    May 14, 2010 at 5:41 pm | Reply
  13. Jack C. NYC NY

    Like any company Adobe has a history of bad products as well as good ones. But touting "choice" is a joke.

    We love choice too, and lost when Adobe bought Macromedia and trashed GoLive, eventually dropping it, now Dreamweaver is the ONLY choice for high end html editors, so much for choices.

    Flash suks. Check out your CPU usage sometime... mine shows the flash plug-in using 50-90% of my CPU.

    May 14, 2010 at 5:42 pm | Reply
  14. michael

    History will show that Apple's downfall began after not including adobe. GO ADOBE GO.

    May 14, 2010 at 5:44 pm | Reply
  15. John A.

    If Apple wants to keep claiming the iPad lets you see "the entire internet", they have to enable Flash support. Flash is used in over 50% of websites, and literally millions of websites won't function at all on the iPad in their present form. Try going to any entertainment site, local band, wedding photographer, or other small business site on the iPad and you'll see what I mean. I gave up and returned my iPad after I realized I couldn't even order a pizza at my local shop without Flash. Whether you like Flash or not is beside the point - it's part of the internet, and widely used. It'd be like Apple saying "we don't like the color red, so we're not going to display any websites with a red color scheme." Well, then, you're not displaying the whole internet then are you.

    May 14, 2010 at 5:48 pm | Reply
  16. Mark S. LA, CA

    "We believe that consumers should be able to freely access their favorite content and applications, regardless of what computer they have, what browser they like, or what device suits their needs," co-founders of Adobe Chuck Geschke and John Warnock wrote.

    "No company — no matter how big or how creative — should dictate what you can create, how you create it, or what you can experience on the web."
    ---

    HYPOCRITES: FLASH IS NOT OPEN

    I'm for HTML 5 replacing the monopoly Adobe has on web content. If you want to create Flash files then you must use Adobe products, where's the openness there? Flash is not only a memory hog it has a history of bugs and security problems. The sooner websites can replace Flash with HTML 5 the better off the user will be.

    And Jobs is as usual ahead of the curve as he was when Apple stopped using floppy disks, they got flack for that, and for only having USB connections (these actions dropped the price of CD drives and blank CDs... and standardized ports to use USB). Complain while you can but the future will thank Apple yet again.

    May 14, 2010 at 5:50 pm | Reply
  17. brad

    Don't count on flash being installed on any Apple devices any time soon, if ever. I for one could care less about flash, doesn't bother me at all. I love my iphone and ipad!

    May 14, 2010 at 5:52 pm | Reply
  18. Dana Wright

    Adobe can't be trusted to produce a safe product and for millions/billions to be using Flash, it's a monopoly, an unsafe monopoly.

    May 14, 2010 at 5:53 pm | Reply
  19. manolochile

    If you can't afford a Mac, or can't appreciate excellent OS, great design, easy of use, innovation years ahead of the rest (iPhone competitors are just starting to catch up, and it was released 3 years ago, a century in technology industry terms); then go ahead complain and whine and get yourself a PC that runs crappy Microsoft Software that not only crashes on its own, but tends to crash much more when using flash. Jobs is not a control freak, he jut wants to make sure his devices work as advertised, as anyone with half a brain should expect them to, and as Microsoft and the rest of the industry have never managed to get them to work. Yes,like someone said, a Ferrari, and people want to run it on 80 octane fuel, this is utter nonsense ...

    May 14, 2010 at 5:53 pm | Reply
  20. Kirk

    Adobe needs to go away and build something that works. Apple doesn't hate Adobe, but it can't rely on Adobe to move forward. Having to use a proprietary plugin that is not open, runs like crap and does not guarantee compatability with the Apple's OS in the future does not help Apple.

    The thing that's been moving Apple forward in recent years is because they make things work like you'd expect them to. That is not true of Adobe. Years ago Adobe could afford to ignore Apple, but not anymore and now they' shedding tears over it. Bo ho.

    May 14, 2010 at 6:16 pm | Reply
  21. Mark

    What's with the argument that Apple uses closed systems? Of course they do and that's why they work so well. To use the Ferrari analogy, do you think it would be OK for anyone to put some new cams in one and have Ferrari be OK with that? Of course not. Like any reasonable manufacturer, that would void the warranty.

    Same thing here. Apple doesn't want to ruin the experience with mediocre plugins. Nor do they want to have to rely on the closed technology of another company.

    May 14, 2010 at 6:25 pm | Reply
  22. Louis

    I'm not sure why i read this article, since i use android... and it has flash!!

    May 14, 2010 at 6:27 pm | Reply
  23. Jennifer

    I am deaf and I make phone calls using iprelay.com
    this website, among all the other internet relay websites uses adobe flash. I do not own a TDD/TDY and have never used one in the past. Previously, I was a sidekick user and made phone calls without fail. Since switching to Iphone, I am unable to make phone calls unless I am at home and on the computer.

    As a result, yes I believe it is unfair. I would like to be given equal access and allowed unlimited choices in how I make phone calls. Apple offers an expensive TDD conversion unit, though I would have to purchase a TDD, learn how to use it, and purchase the expensive add on as well. This is not a satisfying option when I prefer convenience of making a call using only a cell phone's internet and flash capabilities over carrying around expensive, extra equipment in my purse.

    May 14, 2010 at 6:31 pm | Reply
  24. mick

    apple builds phenomenal technology, from hardware to software. it makes good business sense to stay vertically integrated, and all my apple stuff has ALWAYS worked better than any other PC's and devices i've owned. in my mind, jobs it doubly right. by keeping adobe out, he makes a better product for me AND he makes more money for him.

    May 14, 2010 at 6:32 pm | Reply
  25. Eugene

    I think it is distrubing that using such a great product like iPad is limited, and the user frustrated, by the limitation of software because of an ego dispute. Very unlike Jobs, get over it!

    Fitst time witht an Apple product that I get annoyed. It's easy to fix! Either buy Adobe systems or accept their software!

    May 14, 2010 at 6:33 pm | Reply
  26. Aaron Hughes

    I have an i-mac and a Dell desktop. My desktop operating with vista has had numerous problems with shutting down, freezing, crashing and viruses. I've had to reformat it twice. My mac is two years older and never been reformatted. I have had zero problems on my mac. I simply love it! Others just don't get it. Why would you support an unprotected product by a monopoly like adobe? Apple has stood up to the microsoft monopoly and now stands up to adobe. Keep it up Steve!

    May 14, 2010 at 6:42 pm | Reply
  27. William Marlowe

    Putting a 'Shim' between the platform and the application is exactly what Microsoft did with .Net to make it more 'Java' like.

    It is a bad idea for performance and reliability for the exact reasons Steve Jobs has stated.

    It does have it's benefits though in the area of developing applications that are more portable, meaning to move to othe platforms.

    Putting adobe flash between the platform and the application is a BAD idea and I don't want it interfering with the performance I need in doing video editing with Final Cut, another Adobe product.

    May 14, 2010 at 6:44 pm | Reply
  28. Alex

    Whoever came up with the Ferrari comparison was wrong. More aptly, it's like a Ferrari that is not allowed to drive on the interstate. You can still get to your destination, but by taking the back roads. Would that be considered "working like advertised"?

    May 14, 2010 at 6:58 pm | Reply
  29. Simon

    I have both a Wintel and a Mac (both are new) and I have noticed that on both, if I run flash they get extremely hot! however if I watch a dvd on either they both remain relatively cool. I think Steve is correct Flash is buggy and I am glad someone is standing up to Adobe – I have to use Adobe products for work and I have never used such infuriating programs. In this day and age Adobe's suit is just to clunky to use. There products always give me problems (now you know why we charge so much to do anything with Adobe). Adobe makes enough money to definitely make a better product, hopefully this spat will make them realise this and make a better product.

    Also as Steve so eloquently put it, there is nothing stopping Adobe from developing an application to write HTML5.

    May 14, 2010 at 7:00 pm | Reply
  30. chris

    i'd rather not even have flash on the desktop. Other than a lot of game content made for large screen and controlled by mice what is it for. If you have been asleep for the last 4 years you might not of realised new technologies are replacing mice. Also Adobe has one of the worst web site around, they use flash. Go visit it if you don't believe me. We must move on with technology. Occasionally we must remove all we have built and rebuild. One must remember that flash is a macromedia technology adobe 'acquired' so they have a large financial investment in it.
    • Things alter for the worse spontaneously, if they be not altered for the better designedly. ~Francis Bacon
    • He who rejects change is the architect of decay. The only human institution which rejects progress is the cemetery. ~Harold Wilson

    May 14, 2010 at 7:02 pm | Reply
  31. aatami rikollinen

    Control freak is a mild term to describe Steve Jobs. I think throwing the adjectives arrogant, egotistical, and spoiled into the mix might illustrate a more complete description.

    May 14, 2010 at 7:04 pm | Reply
  32. Brian

    Fact Check:

    Flash is open. Anyone can make a Flash Player and several manufactures make software that create Flash content just like Flash does.

    HTML5 is years away from being a mature standard. Also, poorly written HTML5 will run-up the cpu just like poorly written Flash. In fact, some test have shown that it really doesn't perform much better than Flash. In some cases worst!

    And if you really want to get geeky about it, the blame for the poor performance on Safari can be laid at Apples door step. Take some time and look it up!

    May 14, 2010 at 7:17 pm | Reply
  33. Mallory

    I think Apple should step up and let adobe flash be on their Ipads.... we can download it on the MacBooks/IMacs... so really Jobs is just controlling it on one or two devices. What's the point?! What irritates me most is that I have a website and it is run by flash so I can't even view my OWN site on the Ipad... I'm a huge fan of Macs but you won't see me buying an Ipad until I can view my own site on it.

    May 14, 2010 at 7:18 pm | Reply
  34. steve

    Flash makes my laptop overheat. It crashes. I've never understood how it became popular or a "standard." I'd be pleased never to use it. I don't have an iPad, but its being "Flash-free" for me would be a plus, not a negative.

    May 14, 2010 at 7:21 pm | Reply
  35. Frank

    I'm totally done with Apple products.... Am finished with the iPod and iMac and switching back to PC.

    May 14, 2010 at 7:52 pm | Reply
  36. nathanael m.

    clearly, apple does not want adobe and their products (flash), as it would enable users to stream video content from any site on the web... thus enabling netflix (and others) to cut into apple's revenue stream derived from iTunes...

    May 14, 2010 at 7:55 pm | Reply
  37. Jack C. NYC NY

    And if you really want to get geeky about it, the blame for the poor performance on Safari can be laid at Apples door step. Take some time and look it up!
    -

    Flash plug-in burns up CPU regardless of browser, Safari or Firefox, check it out if you know how to monitor your CPU usage.

    Most reported Safari crash problems are because Flash is 32-bit whereas Safari is 64-bit. You can select "run 32-bit" with Safari to compensate for Flash's shortcoming.

    You can also use ClickToFlash on Safari and Flashblock on Firefox, both block Flash and allow you to download the Flash file if you choose, is that the choice Adobe is talking about?

    Youtube offers alternatives (H.234) to flakey Flash and other sites are following suit. Like CD's replaced Floppy's, HTML 5 will be the norm in 3-5 years and Flash will be history.

    May 14, 2010 at 7:59 pm | Reply
  38. Quill

    "Ahh, yeah! Love Apple but I think Steve has an obsession with control. Can we ever have a device released with restrictions? It seems whenever I like a mobile gadget, I buy it and am disappointed because some simple tasks or apps are blocked because of corporate politics. I love the Ipad and will buy one when It has flash or its equivalent installed."

    Fully agree with the control issue. If anyone hasn't already seen from the history of Apple, is they have always been about control, good or bad. It just reflects on many issues as to why. I personally would have to take two sides depending on how you look at the inner perspective or the outer perspective, neither can be justified, but well still have the choice to choose to support, buy or disregard it.

    May 14, 2010 at 8:16 pm | Reply
  39. Doug

    How ironic. Adobe whining about "healthy competition" and trying to criticize Apple? Please, you hypocrites at Adobe. If Adobe likes healthy competition, innovation and don't like when someone takes away your right to choose what you create and how you create it, they should sell of Freehand (the only real competitor to Illustrator) or release it to open source. At least freefreehand.org is trying to do something about it.

    May 14, 2010 at 8:24 pm | Reply
  40. Andrew

    Despite Steve's control issues, he does have a point. If the iPhone hangs or crashes on something that we EXPECT to work (Flash), we don't blame the middle-ware, we blame the OS and the phone. Look at what little confidence we have in Windows. I respect the direct developer-OS continuity, at least there's clear accountability.

    May 14, 2010 at 8:26 pm | Reply
  41. X

    I have had PCs for over 20 years with ZERO issues. All I know is that my friends have had MACs and always complain about their computers crashing and they loose all of their files. Jobs is an egotistical maniac. I'm soo tired of Apple, it's just a trend...like rooting for the Red Sox. Some knuckleheads feel better about themselves b/c they are in the minority, it's similar to attempting to be a noncomformist while actually conforming to something popular.

    May 14, 2010 at 8:30 pm | Reply
  42. Jean S

    Is it practical to use the IPAD for long hours? In Bed, on the Sofa? What about ergonomics? I also heard the keyboard is not state of the art. I am first worried about these issues. After, here comes the Flash debate...If am going to pay for something, its gonna be mine and I should be able to do with it whatever I want, softwares and OS etc. Also I need something that can work NOW and in the futur, which is not the case of the IPad without support of Flash. Another reason why I won't buy the IPAD. By the way, I think Adobe is great in all the solutions they supply and Apple should be compatible with whats on the web and not adapt the web to Apple....

    May 14, 2010 at 8:33 pm | Reply
  43. Charlie

    Who cares? if you want flash, go Android and Windoze. If you don't, enjoy the walled garden.

    May 14, 2010 at 8:47 pm | Reply
  44. Rikardo

    I agree with Jobs and Apple, almost all products of the Adobe, slow down the fastest PC, many times freeze browsers, or even all PC, they are so huge that this is ridiculous. I mean one Adobe Photoshop CS5 is heavy 1,6 GB what is nonsense for editing images or what ever, plus all of the Adobe's software use so much memory, that they are really shit products. So what Adobe need is that EU commission kick theirs asses just like they did with Microsoft, so least European users will profit from that. Also Flash player is to heavy, it freeze all browsers, it slow down so much surfing over the net, or slow down so much users PC, that something must be done.
    About Jobs and Apple, they are against Adobe for theirs reasons, because if they agree to give possibility to have Adobe Flash player on Apple's products, than they are able to say goodbye for charging people for all kind of the Apple iTunes bullshits, on which they earn tons of the money.

    So on the end, US government and EU commission must do something over Adobe and Apple. Adobe must have limits in size of theirs products, for example max per product 100 Mb, plus they have to fix many issue why theirs products slow down users speed on net, or theirs PC, and Apple must remove limits to install Adobe Flash products on theirs products.

    Anywhere I hope both companies will soon be bankrupt, they are not anything more moral than Hulliburton or oil companies.

    May 14, 2010 at 9:12 pm | Reply
  45. Mark C

    *** And to hell with the other 60% on the web using dynamic content. ***

    If you think 60% of the "dynamic content" on the web is in Flash, you are truly too stupid to live.

    May 14, 2010 at 9:15 pm | Reply
  46. sureee

    Two things..

    OpenOffice 3.0 FREE
    Ubuntu Operating System FREE

    =

    No more spat.

    May 14, 2010 at 9:15 pm | Reply
  47. Mark C

    Good riddance to Flash.

    May 14, 2010 at 9:16 pm | Reply
  48. jbj

    Consumers don't want Flash – they want the content it displays. Another medium with similar content would be fine – as long as people get their video & game fix. Which is why JavaScript, HTML5, etc. will do fine.

    Made a website in Flash? Get over your laziness and do it properly in HTML!

    As for the lack of Flash bringing down Apple as some have ludicrously suggested here... the iPhone & iPod Touch have never had Flash, and they're both doing pretty well the last time I checked.

    As for the dolts saying they want Flash on their iPad, I suppose they mean video, not the mouse-oriented apps that some sites have, because they would be awful on a touch screen. If the iPad user experience were awful the blame would be on Apple.

    So if you want Flash, don't buy an iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch. No one's forcing you. Just as Apple is free to build their machines the way they want, and Adobe is free to develop (or not) Flash the way it wants.

    May 14, 2010 at 9:24 pm | Reply
  49. jbj

    And I have Flash turned off on my desktop. Banking sites, Netflix, YouTube – all fine without it. All I miss are the annoying Flash ads :-)

    May 14, 2010 at 9:26 pm | Reply
  50. Benny

    The use Adobe is key to most computer, wether it be to view sites watch video or a simple website. All of these are being restricted and the complaints made by Apple are true of the browser crashing, but if the software is open on macbook and iMacs then what difference will it make to have it on Iphone and Ipads this should be sorted out.

    May 14, 2010 at 9:33 pm | Reply
  51. Marvin

    HTML5 as a replacement for Flash? because Steve Jobs says so?

    I run flashblock on chrome, never liked flash but that wont change the fact that HTML5 is NOT a replacement for flash. As the CEO of Apple, Steve Jobs knows it better than everyone else. He is a friggin liar. "A lie is a lie even if every fanboi believes it"

    May 14, 2010 at 9:40 pm | Reply
  52. bernard

    I think the internet should be free to the terms of the legal. And any one company or government that try to in any way limit this freedom is forming dictatorship like habits. But that Apple does this is no surprise to me. The guy whit the monopoly will always take advantage of it Microsoft did it and got fined for it Apple should too. Let’s face it Steve Jobs it the new Bill Gates and he come whit the same down sides only not with a foundation.

    May 14, 2010 at 9:48 pm | Reply
  53. rainynight

    imagine if bill gate said what steve job said about, "letting a third-party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform." then no other applications could use/share the windows os.

    i think thats what we call monopoly and antitrust. the reason you don't see apple acting like this in the past was because apple was still small compare to the other companies so you couldn't see their true color. apple is no different from other monopolistic companies of the pass.

    May 14, 2010 at 10:38 pm | Reply
  54. John

    Obviously many of the people complaining about Apple and its stance on Flash are very uneducated on the ups and downs of Flash. Most of the comments with people complaining here also come with references to incorrect information or even non-existant products (iHTML???). It's fine if you don't know what you are talking about but instead of complainging about Apple, just don't buy their products right? If they make such horrible and restricted items that are overpriced and overhyped then it should be easy to just not buy them right? Don't be ignorant. Educate yourself on the topic before complaining and don't buy the products if it gets you in such a tizzy. Go out and buy a "quality" Dell or HP machine, especially those "high tech" netbooks! You know, I don't like my car being electronically limited to 155...I don't like speed limits and I don't like that I have to take the car to a licensed dealer with a compatible scanner if I need repairs.........so? Suck it up.

    May 14, 2010 at 10:43 pm | Reply
  55. amq

    I love Apple and I also love Adobe. It's sad to see old friends (Apple & Adobe) disagree on yet another key issue. Each company is a big reason for the success of the other. If it weren't for Adobe PostScript and PageMaker, and the Apple Computer and LaserWriter, there wouldn't have been desktop publishing, and both companies may have disappeared in the early 80s. Then came Adobe Photoshop, one of the greatest applications ever written, and other great Adobe software for the Mac, which opened up new markets for both companies. Then Apple made lots of mistakes and got small (in the 90s) so Adobe had to look at other platforms (PCs), made their software available there, and made much more money than they ever did on the Mac. Adobe got big – may be bigger than Apple at some point. Then Steve came back to Apple and Apple got bigger (in the 00s). Disagreements started right away - Steve treated Adobe as the old small company from the 1980s and refused to see it as a big partner. Then new fights irrupted over switching to new Apple Mac OS X technologies (Cocoa) vs. supporting old Apple OS services (Carbon). Adobe wanted to stick with Carbon since they have massive amounts of code that depended on it. Apple wanted to support only the superior Cocoa. Adobe wouldn't budge. Apple then dropped Carbon support forcing Adobe and other Software "laggers" to scramble and switch fast. Most of the problems you see today between the two companies are based on this long friendship gradually going bad. And it all started with the return of SJ. He basically mistreated a great partner.

    May 14, 2010 at 10:54 pm | Reply
  56. Rich Renouf

    Apple is the company it is today because of the strict "guidance" imposed by Steve Jobs. I firmly believe that keeping all of the major softwares in house has been the key to Apple's success. The instant a "third-party" software component becomes indispensable to Apple will be the beginning of Apple's demise. I'm not saying this as some pompous user, I'm saying this as a computer technician who makes my living in the industry working daily within the educational field. There is no finger-pointing when something fails and buck always falls at the feet of a single entity.

    Compare this with the recent oil spill in the gulf. Every Dick and has Dog manages to point in a different direction.

    May 14, 2010 at 10:59 pm | Reply
  57. Hatshepsut

    Flash is outdated, it takes up way too much CPU, and understandably wouldn't work well on the iPhone/iPad...please update to HTML 5!

    May 14, 2010 at 11:01 pm | Reply
  58. Andy

    I think they do it on purpuse going along the line of..."I don´t care if they speak good or bad about me as long as they speak about me". So this is probably just a big publicity stunt. Personally I hope it backfires on them. Bet they wouldn´t have acted as childish 15 years ago.

    May 14, 2010 at 11:40 pm | Reply
  59. Rastaman

    No need whinning over this issue. Apple has the right to decide what happens on the Ipad or Iphone. If you don't like it, simply buy don't buy it. Personally, I think buying an ipad is a waste of money, but that's just me.Pick and choose. There are many options in the smartphone market.Apple's next product is probably the I-screw you.

    May 14, 2010 at 11:57 pm | Reply
  60. Agbetuyi Olumide

    I thinks Apple has done A great job but hindering softwares like Adobe is a bad move

    May 15, 2010 at 12:06 am | Reply
  61. Laur

    The best thing that happened here at work is when the IT guys came around and removed all these Flash players.

    CPU usage went down from 50~90% to 4~6%.

    Now we can do some work.

    I am quite happy to be deprived of contents depending on Flash. A lot people pay dearly for upgrade just to be able to view some [90% of the times silly] videos. I care less about viewing videos on my cell phone.

    May 15, 2010 at 12:18 am | Reply
  62. Fernando Saenz

    I have way too many problems with Apple’s approach to mention. Their agenda should not maim the web experience of its consumers. The last guy who tried to take over the world by force didn’t do so well, Apple should learn from the past.
    I agree with the guys at Adobe, reinventing the wheel and coming up with your own standards to read, view and enjoy life only makes life more complicated for the general public. I think that in the end that attitude and arrogance will cost Apple dearly or at least I hope it does

    May 15, 2010 at 12:18 am | Reply
  63. David Mellor

    Flash is a security risk, a battery drain, and a bug-riddled plugin. It was instrumental in getting the web to where it is today, but now it needs to go the way of the floppy. I hope Apple wins this war.

    May 15, 2010 at 12:27 am | Reply
  64. Drew

    I bought a Mac a month ago, after getting fed up with my PC crashing all the time, too often when I accessed a website using Flash.
    Amazing–the Mac hasn't crashed once. Some functionality may be hampered, but I have to go with Steve Jobs on this one. He's protecting his product, and me, and for that I'm thankful.

    May 15, 2010 at 12:35 am | Reply
  65. DewiMorgan

    This is why Apple are losing out to Android.

    May 15, 2010 at 12:42 am | Reply
  66. Paul Veronin

    Flash is obsolete and very bad technology. Thanks Apple for keeping these road apples away from my gorgeous iPad.

    May 15, 2010 at 12:43 am | Reply
  67. Rafael Castillo

    Apple's move makes sense. HTML5 is the open web, not Flash. Also, Adobe's Flash eats too many system resources and is abused on many websites, resulting in a bad user experience. Based on iPhone and iPad sales I think users don't have any problem with Apple's decision. Finally, Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smartphones (RIM, Palm, Nokia, HTC) so why is Adobe crying foul? Instead Adobe should be focusing on creating authoring tools for rich HTML5 content. But they won't because they want Flash to be the prevailing format. Who is the control freak then?

    May 15, 2010 at 1:03 am | Reply
  68. Mark

    they just are trying to not allow people to easily access media content outside of itunes. "Oh its ok you cant do your normat web stuff in our browser.. go develop an App and then force people to buy it to do that" I got cloudbrows on my iphone which is pretty cool for flash web stuff but a little choppy for video and audio... How often does your pc crash while viewing dynamic flash web content? I cant recall that ever happening. Quit being greedy Apple and give us flash

    May 15, 2010 at 1:04 am | Reply
  69. Richard Agerbloger

    What about hover states? Thanks to Steve we will never see a hover state again? No Mouse tricks or trials? No more accordion navigations? no more custom scrolls?

    Do I really want to get all touchy feely with every website. I got an iPad and it is always all greasy with finger prints, its kinda gross.

    This no Flash will boost the web design industry because millions of Flash sites will need to be rebuilt. Thats fine with me but i will miss those mouse trails.

    May 15, 2010 at 1:04 am | Reply
  70. shwebell

    If the Droid had Flash it would be game over for Apple.

    May 15, 2010 at 1:04 am | Reply
  71. shwebell

    Oops, it DOES have Flash!

    May 15, 2010 at 1:06 am | Reply
  72. Josh

    No one is forcing you to buy an iPad. I myself am an apple fan, but I believe that the iPad is limited. I think it's flawed and will wait for improvements (if they ever come). Don't like the iPad? Love flash too much? Don't buy it. That simple. Whenever I run anything heavy on flash, my mac and PC's temp goes up significantly (yeah, I also use a Dell, apple fan, but not apple fanboy). Moreso than photo editing software like GIMP. Never had any problems with my mac. It's going on 5 years now and have yet to reformat it.

    May 15, 2010 at 1:27 am | Reply
  73. Codepoet

    To the posters using the Ferrari analogy – would you really want to not have a choice to what brand of tires or windshield wiper fluid you use with your car? That's what this is about; a manufacturer exercising complete control over what you can do with their product.

    Yes, I too would choose to use the Ferrari recommended products. I too would choose to not install a memory and cpu hogging flash player on my cell phone. The key word here is choice. I want to be able to make that choice. I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE THAT CHOICE REMOVED. I don't want what programs I can and can't run in the hands of any company.

    Apple does make the trains run on time. But it's still a dictatorship.

    May 15, 2010 at 3:08 am | Reply
  74. Hobartimus

    Apple's choice not to support Flash is their choice as a business bringing a product to market. They are making an effort to change personal computing. They might fail or they might succeed, but they certainly have no obligation to support another company's technology if it does not fit their vision. The only thing Apple owes us as consumers is support for the products we choose to buy from Apple.

    May 15, 2010 at 6:26 am | Reply
  75. Knowledge

    Well I been looking at flash on my iPod touch ... Just download cloud browse from the app store it's free .. So you can see flash on iPod or iPhone hope this info helps

    May 15, 2010 at 7:45 am | Reply
  76. Knowledge

    And no I'm not spamming just happy I can finally view flash and just spreading the word

    May 15, 2010 at 7:52 am | Reply
  77. Ashiru u gabasawa

    They should try to style them self.

    May 15, 2010 at 7:53 am | Reply
  78. Bob

    It's not about Adobe for Jobs hates freedom of choice. Jobs has never understood the word "compatibility", nor does he understand "open" or "choice", the Ipad shows this to the full extent, it's just an electronic apple ad platform (i-ad), not a platform. He wants to tell us what we should like and want, like a socialist dictator and wants us to buy it from the (apple-)state, anything else is illegal to him, Jobs maybe you should work for China, they think similar, to the rest of the FREE-thinking world there are plenty of other options than those iDictate products.

    I got a name for another product though: Computerized real-time Apple ad platform, the iCraap.

    May 15, 2010 at 3:12 pm | Reply
  79. Billy

    I've used flash forever. I use it to watch TV and Movies online, I play games with it, and visit my favorite vlogs/flash-animation sites. I've never had a problem with it, I've never had CPU issues with it, and I've never had a crash because of it. I wonder if the people complaining about crashes and CPU/battery-hogging are MAC users....hmm...
    I have a Mac and three PC's. I use the PC's frequently but quit turning the Mac on. It's basically useless these days. I don't subscribe to the "ours is bigger than yours" religion Steve Jobs is selling here and I really don't like how he not only alienates his users but also developers! Guess what Steve, one of the MAIN reasons people buy your hardware-anemic computer is for photo-editing with a little creative suite called, "Photoshop". Guess who makes it? Yes, that's right, your arch-enemy, ADOBE!!! What happens when they decide you've pissed in their cereal enough and they don't release CS5 to Crappintosh? You loose a major market-share.
    I think when people start wising up to the fact that they've just overpaid to be elitists and bought the Mac-religion hook-line-and-sinker, they'll start (sheepishly) switching over to a platform that works with everyone's software! PC!! Install what you want, go to the web pages you want, run whatever OS you want, build your own to suit your specific needs be they gaming, graphic design, photo-editing, music production, video editing, etc!!!
    I think my biggest issue with this is, html 5 might be the (so called) future, but until it becomes the norm, it's useless. Flash is already there, in place, people know how to create webpages based on flash, it will continue to get better and no one has to learn a new system.
    Safari doesn't run flash well because Steve Jobs wants it that way...end of story. This guy bites the hand that feeds more readily than a rabid dog. I can't back his ego-maniacal business philosophy whatsoever and will never buy anything Apple again.
    I prefer freedom of choice to a grand-dictator telling me what I can and can't do with my $5,000 machine thank you very much.

    May 15, 2010 at 3:55 pm | Reply
  80. batastrophe

    honestly. flash based websites, just like java ones of the past are absolute crap. whoever these crackpot designers are who keep doing flash only websites, which are usually accompanied by a pop up interface make me die inside as a designer.

    May 15, 2010 at 3:59 pm | Reply
  81. Biodiesel

    Adobe's claims re: Freedom of choice is a lie, just like cake. We as consumers have no choice if a website uses flash, silverlight or HTML5.

    If Adobe was sincere about freedom of choice, then they would allow open development of 3rd party flash players, but they don't... they deploy the same "total control" that they fault Apple for excersizing.

    May 18, 2010 at 3:32 am | Reply
  82. GusDoeMatik

    @GusDoeMatik

    What I think is the biggest problem is that people aren't truly understanding the situation from a designers perspective.

    Designers need flash for rich interactive content. Supposedly you can create the same content with a combination of Javascript, HTML5, and CSS3. But here's the issue–designers can't!!! A programmer can, but how many programers can actually design?

    Another issue is that people are comparing Adobe Flash with the open standards of Javascript, HTML5, and CSS3. You can't compare it, they are totally 2 different animals. Javascript, HTML5, and CSS3 are computer languages, while flash is an application. Flash does use a bastardized version of the computer language, Javascript, which adobe called ActionScript, but that's goes without saying.

    See I can go inside Flash and create a stunning advertisement without knowing a lick of code. There is no such editor currently on the market that has a WYSIWYG user interface, that converts Javascript, HTML5, and CSS3. If I'm wrong please point me to one.

    I have thought about this for a while and came up with a solution.

    Note: This solution isn't perfected but it's a point in the right direction Also this solution is for the (canvas) tag which is the new HTML5 tag which enables the user to have flash like content on their page:

    First:
    Either Adobe, Apple, and/or an Independent company needs to create a MAC/PC compatible application that solves this problem. Personally I would like to see Apple make it. Although if Adobe made it they would add support to Photoshop, Illustrator and/or other apps in their line up. The type of support only adobe could do like layers and editing.

    Second:
    I would call this Application iCanvas(Apple), Canvas H5(Adobe). Of course they would never use these names cause they would feel some type of way about using a name I created for their apps since I don't work for them.

    Third
    The App:
    I would add a timeline, code/designer view, the many tool palettes that are currently available in most creation applications, and of course a canvas for creation. The canvas is where you would create your animations and such, just like you would do in Flash except to the left/right would be the code view in which you could see the actual code that creates these animations. That way an expert coder could also adjust, fix, and/or add custom code. The app should also automatically create an external CSS3 file to go with the project, but give the user the flexibility to name the styles being used.

    Once the designer finishes the project the user saves it in 2 different formats. The first format would be the native app project format. the second format would be a text file that the web could use.

    Implementing this file so that the web can use it. The solution for this would be create a new tag or alter the existing (canvas) tag.

    Example:
    (canvas embed class="whatever" id="custom") .../directory/fileName.canvas(/canvas). You would place that tag in the area where the current flash file is located. You would use the class/id for positioning, borders, height, width, and so on.
    Note: I removed the html brackets because the server thinks it malicious code

    Embedding the file would be better so you can have other files point to it rather than having to copy and paste the code to each file that wants to use that particular file.

    Problem:
    Adobe might not want to do this cause it would compete against their current line up of apps, Flash/DreamWeaver. But they could make it as an extension/plugin for those apps.

    Now this is just me brainstorming, but Adobe/Apple have teams and think tanks that can take this idea and transform it something more powerful.

    One thing I will add before I end this very long comment is that any independent company that sees this idea please jump on it... The first company to make such an app will have millions of purchasers...
    And if Apple is reading this then I want you to hurry up make it.... PLEASE!!!!

    Thank you for taking the time out to read this...

    May 18, 2010 at 10:36 pm | Reply
  83. Elsoreth

    I believe many of the people leaving comments are missing the point of the outrage being shown by people over this decision. The argument in this case is not, nor has it ever been, one about the quality of flash. The issue is that apple has made the decision to say, "You, you people who bought our stuff. You don't get to see flash content. You'll never get to see flash content. We refuse to let Adobe help you to see flash content. And it's a good thing for you, be happy!"

    Again referencing the ferrari analogy, the issue isn't that ferrari cars don't have fiat engines. It would be more like if ferrari decided one day that their cars didn't need speedometers. Sure the car works without them, and maybe by removing them they have space on the dashboard for something else. But without the speedometer, the usefulness of the car becomes tenuous.

    May 24, 2010 at 10:14 am | Reply
  84. Kristi

    I am an aspiring musician and apple's restriction on adobe limits the amount of work I can do on the go to almost nothing. I want to find a producer and I need to hear samples.... But I need flash to bear them. I want to show a friend my website, but they can't see any pictures or any of the content. I'm always on the go, and I got the iPhone because I can't afford to lose a minute and at the end of the day, I still have to wait to get home to my pc before I can do any research or networking. It's extremely inconvenient and even if I rework my website, I still can't access 90% of the samples other musicians post. Even myspace music requires flash! Please please please Apple make my life easier- then I'll buy the ipad...

    August 1, 2010 at 8:57 am | Reply

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